Currently reading:
ATS diamond tools - thin wall diamond core drills
Discuss ATS diamond tools - thin wall diamond core drills in the Canada Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com.
C
Concrete guy
Thanks Geoff,
Reserve you're excitement for when you've actually tried them, these are designed specifically for the glazing industry and this type of sintered bit is used extensively on CNC machines in glass and stone masonry industries.
It seems logical it would work in porcelain, so why not try it?
Reserve you're excitement for when you've actually tried them, these are designed specifically for the glazing industry and this type of sintered bit is used extensively on CNC machines in glass and stone masonry industries.
It seems logical it would work in porcelain, so why not try it?
C
Concrete guy
They are quite thin, the wall is 1mm or 1.2mm thick depending on the size.
I've got a few bits in to test, they are designed to be used with a water fed swivel but I just want to see how they perform wet or dry.
Small drill sizes are a constant problem, particularly 6mm to 10mm. Trying to produce something that drills a decent hole, last a reasonable amount of time without costing a fortune.
So lets find out of it drills first, then we'll work out what fitting we'll make them with.
C
Concrete guy
The answer to that is part of the reason we're testing.
Do they cut quicker, cleaner, last longer?
C
Concrete guy
Perfect, feedback good and bad is all welcome.
Try them wet first Geoff, then try them dry and tell me how quick you can kill them.
C
Concrete guy
#
ooh, do you have a link so I can look at those?
EDIT:- I think I found them, that's the Armeg PTC set?
You wouldn't happen to know what thread fitting is on those would you?
Last edited by a moderator:
Q
Qwerty
So today on my weekend off I was given an hour by the long haired colonel indoors to go outside and test the new ATS thin walled cores.
Alan from ATS diamond tools had sent me 6mm, 12mm & 20mm bits. Cheers mate
I had to use my Makita cordless (at 1300 RPM) on drilling mode. I tried them all wet first and then dry. Tested on 10mm full bodied grade 4 porcelain.
My first observation on these bits are that they are very well machined and the metal appeared to be of a very "engineered" high speed (high temperature) steel. The bits came in some small plastic tubes and were covered in engineering oil. The diamonds appeared very fine and I noticed that there were no notches in the leading edge of the bit to aid in debris extraction that you find in regular ATS diamond core drills and other makes.
6mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes in quick succession. Average time for each hole was 1 min 51 secs. By the end of the 3rd hole the water surrounding the hole was boiling and bubbling away a treat. Diamonds on tip seemed worn too.
12mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes. Average time for each hole was 1 min 13 secs!....the fastest of the three. Drill bit did not seemed phased at all really and provided consistent results.
20mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes. Average time for each hole was 1 min 32 secs.
I noticed that each one gave off what appeared to be a metal oxide where it was wearing down slightly. I can see this being a major downside if tiles were drilled once fixed due to the grey metal sludge getting onto finished grout!
I was not surprised that each bit seemed to chip the surface slightly but to be honest I wasn't really trying to be ultra precise at that point. I did produce some lovely clean holes at a slower speed though. I found the cores got stuck in the drill bit so had to resort to removing it from the drill and tapping it out from the backside through the hole in the shaft with a 3mm drill bit.
The dry testing went surprisingly well really.
6mm struggled slightly but still managed 3 holes even if it was literally red hot by the end. Cut the first dry hole in 1 min 54 secs and two more at around 2 mins 10 secs.
Change of battery then onto 12mm. Cut first hole in 1 min 32 secs and a few more in under 2 mins each.
The 20mm one surprised me as it was the fastest dry at 1 min 20 secs with a few more just a bit slower.
All of them produced virtually zero metal oxide when dry. The cores were an absolute nightmare to remove from the bits when dry. I resorted to using the 3mm drill bit trick with the help of a hammer to tap the core out.
Bits still seem to have a fair bit of life left in them and I think they will still go on to cut plenty of stone or ceramic with ease. They seemed fine in my drill and never slipped when drilling. Machining on the shaft may be an idea but then again no other diamond cores have that!
All in all I'm quite impressed!!!
Alan from ATS diamond tools had sent me 6mm, 12mm & 20mm bits. Cheers mate
I had to use my Makita cordless (at 1300 RPM) on drilling mode. I tried them all wet first and then dry. Tested on 10mm full bodied grade 4 porcelain.
My first observation on these bits are that they are very well machined and the metal appeared to be of a very "engineered" high speed (high temperature) steel. The bits came in some small plastic tubes and were covered in engineering oil. The diamonds appeared very fine and I noticed that there were no notches in the leading edge of the bit to aid in debris extraction that you find in regular ATS diamond core drills and other makes.
6mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes in quick succession. Average time for each hole was 1 min 51 secs. By the end of the 3rd hole the water surrounding the hole was boiling and bubbling away a treat. Diamonds on tip seemed worn too.
12mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes. Average time for each hole was 1 min 13 secs!....the fastest of the three. Drill bit did not seemed phased at all really and provided consistent results.
20mm bit (wet). Drilled 3 holes. Average time for each hole was 1 min 32 secs.
I noticed that each one gave off what appeared to be a metal oxide where it was wearing down slightly. I can see this being a major downside if tiles were drilled once fixed due to the grey metal sludge getting onto finished grout!
I was not surprised that each bit seemed to chip the surface slightly but to be honest I wasn't really trying to be ultra precise at that point. I did produce some lovely clean holes at a slower speed though. I found the cores got stuck in the drill bit so had to resort to removing it from the drill and tapping it out from the backside through the hole in the shaft with a 3mm drill bit.
The dry testing went surprisingly well really.
6mm struggled slightly but still managed 3 holes even if it was literally red hot by the end. Cut the first dry hole in 1 min 54 secs and two more at around 2 mins 10 secs.
Change of battery then onto 12mm. Cut first hole in 1 min 32 secs and a few more in under 2 mins each.
The 20mm one surprised me as it was the fastest dry at 1 min 20 secs with a few more just a bit slower.
All of them produced virtually zero metal oxide when dry. The cores were an absolute nightmare to remove from the bits when dry. I resorted to using the 3mm drill bit trick with the help of a hammer to tap the core out.
Bits still seem to have a fair bit of life left in them and I think they will still go on to cut plenty of stone or ceramic with ease. They seemed fine in my drill and never slipped when drilling. Machining on the shaft may be an idea but then again no other diamond cores have that!
All in all I'm quite impressed!!!
C
Concrete guy
Really thorough review Geoff, thanks very much.
I see these bits used extensively in glass and stone and wondered if they would be viable in Porcelain.
From a producers point of view 6mm holes are a headache. It is the most common size by a country mile, we literally sell thousands a month in just 6mm. There's not room for a huge amount of diamond on the head and it's not really a core in the traditional understanding of the term.
The inexpensive electroplated bits work, because they are inexpensive and effectively disposable items.
Our dry vacuum brazed drills are a compromise, they work but at 6mm they still don't produce as many holes as I'd really like. That's the reason why many manufacturers don't offer anything below 20mm in Vacuum Brazed, or only advise the smaller sizes are suitable for stone.
The bits Geoff has tested above are going to be a similar price point to the vacuum brazed items, I'm not sure if I see a market for them at that price to be honest unless we were able to manufacture a 6mm bit that genuinely produces 30 - 40 holes rather than the "up to" 30 -40 holes that most claim.
It's also interesting what Geoff mentioned about core ejection - I'll ask the factory why these bits are not slotted to allow easier core removal, there may be a technical reason for that.
Would you buy them Geoff? If you did buy them would you consider them an alternative product to other types of drill or would it simply be a different type to solve a specific problem?
Q
Qwerty
I would buy them but only if a similar price to the electroplated ones to be honest. These for me don't really do anything over what the dry or electroplated cores do. Glass or highly polished tiles on the other hand may be a different matter and I can see straight away that these would be a superior option due to how well the initial bite is and wandering is a minimum.
C
Concrete guy
That's quite possible.
C
Concrete guy
Nice summary and ultimately what we need to know.
Off to find a glazing forum then I guess
Q
Qwerty
Nice summary and ultimately what we need to know.
Off to find a glazing forum then I guess
I'm going to get hold of some glass tiles in a few weeks and will give them another spin then. I'm thinking that they will also be perfect for ultra thin porcelain due to very little resonance produced from the drill bit compared to other types of core drills.
Reply to ATS diamond tools - thin wall diamond core drills in the Canada Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com
There are similar tiling threads here
Hello there,
Relatively recently we had a new en-suite fitted (complete rip out of the old fittings, and old wall tiles and floor carpet). This consisted of a quadrant shower enclosure, a...
- AndyZR81
- The Welcome Forum
- 5
- 2K
Posting a tiling question to the forum? Post in Tilers' Talk if you are unsure which forum to post in. We'll move it if there's a more suitable forum.