advice fixing natural stone tiles

[boxhead]

im after some advice lads.on short notice ive been asked by a builder to fix some large natural stone tiles on a wall. this is my first stone job.the tiles are 12mm thick and 400x200. they are quite heavy, some will be upside down under a shelf. 1; do you recommend a 6mm or 10mm trowel. 2; they are dusty, should i back skim them. 3; they are almost white,do i seal them, if so before grouting them and after.and finaly 4; what size grout spacer would you advise for the job.would appriciate the help as i start these in the morning.ta:huh2:

 

[Time's Ran Out]

1) Solid bed fix 8mm trowel .
2) Flat back on sponge wiped tile.
3) Seal them before you touch them! Seal them again before grouting - if clean and dry. Seal again if required after grouting and only if clean.
4) IMO 3mm.

Check what the wall surface is before fixing - weight!
Use a powdered fast set WHITE adhesive.

Timeless John.

 

[djr tiling]

i agree with john on most points i think the spacer size comes down to a couple of things
do the tiles have a rectified edge or are they tumbled edge ?
if rectified i would use 2 or 3 mm spacers
also ask the customer what size joint they want as they may have seen them fitted somewhere and they already have a look they are looking for
i would use a slower setting adhesive if you haven't done stone before but definitely a powdered one

and definitely check what surface you are fitting on there is a lot of weight there

oh and good luck and take your time

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

i agree with the lads good luck :yikes:

 

[milan11]

1. 10mm
2. yes, it only helps
3. depend what kind of stone
4. 1-2 mm
5. if you don't have enough experience with stone, never use fast set, always use slow set flexible (in your case white) adhesive

 

[DHTiling]

Moved to stone forum.

 

[boxhead]

thanks for the tips

 

[boxhead]

thanks a lot .the tiles have a slight bullnose on every edge.

 

[boxhead]

ill take all the tips on board.ta

 

[boxhead]

timeless john due to very inclimate weather it is very awkward to seal due to space.do you think if i sponge them vigerously as i fit them ,i could seal when fitted before i grout.

 

[DHTiling]

What stone is it....Not apple stone is it...?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

As djr tiling, if they have a bullnose on the edges they are possibly tumbled.
In this case a smaller joint 2mm might be aesthetically more appealing.
The advantage of fast set adhesive is with the larger heavier tiles there is limited back suction and you can fix a smoother finished face of the tiles.
If you can tile and mix just enough adhesive to use in 10/15min it is my choice.

Timeless John.

NO seal tiles BEFORE you look at them.

 

[boxhead]

i normally only mix a bucket at a time. thanks a lot.

 

[boxhead]

not realy sure sorry..

 

[boxhead]

im hopeing if i sponge as a go can i seal when fixed before i grout and then after.help me please.:whistling:

 

[djr tiling]

it really depends on the type of stone if it is really pourous then seal it also you may be lucky and it might be pre sealed :hurray:
but you have to be very lucky for that :lol:

 

[milan11]

im hopeing if i sponge as a go can i seal when fixed before i grout and then after.help me please.:whistling:

Don't worry, you don't have to seal them before you fix them, only before and after grouting.

And about fast set adhesive - never use fast set adhesive, if you don't know, how the stone reacts on fast set adhesive.
Fast set addy actually shouldn't be used for stone at all.
It can be only used for non absorbant stone - granit etc.
With rapid set addy you risk that stone will bend or it'll crack.
And you definitely can't use fast set addy for heated areas or for thick bed adhesive.

 

[djr tiling]

come on boxhead let us know how you got on or how things are going

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Don't worry, you don't have to seal them before you fix them, only before and after grouting.

And about fast set adhesive - never use fast set adhesive, if you don't know, how the stone reacts on fast set adhesive.
Fast set addy actually shouldn't be used for stone at all.
It can be only used for non absorbant stone - granit etc.
With rapid set addy you risk that stone will bend or it'll crack.
And you definitely can't use fast set addy for heated areas or for thick bed adhesive.

What a load of poop!
Weber Stoneset flexible sp rapidset adhesive is for fixing Natural Stone and is suitable for underfloor heating.
As far as not sealing the Limestone before it is fixed is advice that will damage the reputation of the tiling industry.
An earlier post asked if it was Applestone - without any reply- and if this is the case or something similar a disaster is waiting.


Timeless John.

 

[milan11]

What a load of poop!
Weber Stoneset flexible sp rapidset adhesive is for fixing Natural Stone and is suitable for underfloor heating.

That's what you read on the bag of Weber and now you believe that.
If this world was perfect, if the stone was never thiner then 20-30 mm, if there were expantion joints every 20-25 sqm, if minimum joints between stone tiles were at least 3 mm, if the concret on the floor was perfect level - within 2mm/2m lenght, if you never apply more then 5-10 mm of adhesive, if you keep 4-5mm gap in every corner(standard in Germany),
if all, and more ,,if'' are true, then yes, you can use rapid set flexible adhesive.
And now, tell me, how many times are all these ,,if'' in real world, true?

As far as not sealing the Limestone before it is fixed is advice that will damage the reputation of the tiling industry.

Tell me only one simple reason, why stone tiles should be sealed before fixing???
If you prime the floor, then sealing stone before fixing is stupidest idea ever, only b/c moisture has no room to go to, it goes into the tiles and disaster is waiting.

 

[wetdec]

Don't worry, you don't have to seal them before you fix them, only before and after grouting. This can be the case depending on the stone, a polished limestone such as Jura would not require sealing where a white limestone such as Flax would. Always check

And about fast set adhesive - never use fast set adhesive, if you don't know, how the stone reacts on fast set adhesive. This is a pretty brave statement considering fast and normal set adhesives perform the same if recomended for use on stone except for the obvious speed of set
Fast set addy actually shouldn't be used for stone at all. It can be only used for non absorbant stone - granit etc. You are confusing rapid with flexi in certain cases.
With rapid set addy you risk that stone will bend or it'll crack.
And you definitely can't use fast set addy for heated areas or for thick bed adhesive. These 2 sentences are indeed not your best I think

Play nice guys..................


..

 

[Time's Ran Out]

IF you think that the manufacturers instructions and fixing techniques are not perfect then that is your problem - don't make it someone elses!
With porous stone a damp sponge (whether clean or otherwise) will affect the acceptance of a sealant at a later stage in the process. This type of stone should be sealed before fixing.


Timeless John.

 

[milan11]

This is a pretty brave statement considering fast and normal set adhesives perform the same if recomended for use on stone except for the obvious speed of set - not true, speeding procces means a lot for different stones and spacially means a lot if stone is very thin - up to 15 mm, and when you use more then 10 mm of addy in some areas - which is with large format stone quite common


You are confusing rapid with flexi in certain cases.
no, I'm not and I never use non flexible adhesive for stone. Do you?



These 2 sentences are indeed not your best I think
I've explained those two above.

To be honest, for floor I try to use only rapid set flexible as non rapid set has a tendency to sink over the night, leaving the floor with 1 mm lips.
But it take me lot of time to prepare the floor, so I can use rapid set and it took me more then 3-4 years to find out, how far and with wich stone I can go with rapid set adhesive.
And I still don't know everything about the stone and I'm still learning new things every day.

But for newbies, to be on the safe side is best not to use rapid set addy for stone at all.

 

[milan11]

IF you think that the manufacturers instructions and fixing techniques are not perfect then that is your problem - don't make it someone elses!

If you'll be on the Court 3 times with your client and manufacturer(as expert and adviser), then you'll find out quite soon, that manufacturers are not always correct and there are hundreds new factors involved with every job and every kind of stone.

 

[DHTiling]

But for newbies, to be on the safe side is best not to use rapid set addy for stone at all.

That i agree with... but certain ones do need careful thought though.

 

[Terry Cottar]

The short answer is no one should be fixing large format natural stone unless they are experienced

tel

 

[beanz]

The short answer is no one should be fixing large format natural stone unless they are experienced

tel

He who dares wins Rodders... :lol:

 

[Fred]

White Mapei maxi...............gives you time................

 

[Terry Cottar]

He who dares wins Rodders... :lol:

Or loses in a lot of cases regarding natural stone

tel

 

[boxhead]

thanks everybody for the handy tips.well i started the job last week and all is well.the stone tiles were silk stone a type of limestone i believe.they are very soft to cut with the disc cutter and easy to work with. all the tiles have a bullnose edge to them and after every cut i must bullnose the the tile to fit but i have variose sanding discs.i decided due to the bad weather to seal them when i am ready to grout after testing a tile before i started.i have just got to have a sponge ready.not so bad im paid by the day so no need to rush and make mistakes. its looking very impresive for my first stone job especially with the set in lights ect its a plush and expensive bathroom,good for the port folio.i will send in some pictures when finished.once again thanks all.:8: