Poor external tiling... Next steps?

[HeyMacarenaAye]

Hi all

A driveway and patio contractor just laid my 56m2 patio using 1000x500x20 Italian porcelain tiles. It looks terrible, but the contractor says it's fine for a patio. The tile supplier and Larsen rep both took a look and agree that it's not fit for purpose. Both suggested a TTA inspection, but that costs £1800!

I'd like to get an opinion from a TTA inspector before committing to such an expense. Can you help put me in touch with someone who can help?

Concerns:

• Unacceptable lipping
• I requested 2mm spacing, they changed to 5mm (due to lipping) without consulting me
• The grouting is horrendous. Discoloration, probably due to over-washing according to grout rep. Extremely lumpy and uneven. Already cracking.
• When replacing chipped tiles, they laid them loose on dry cement with no adhesive, only grout to hold them
• Installed on a wet bed of cement without back buttering, adhesive or admix. Many areas sound hollow. Grout rep says patio will fail due to water ingress.

The advice from the Larsen rep was to pull it all up and start again.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[Just Rizzle]

have you got pics

 

[Dan]

It's not the only inspection that would stand up in court. They're making silly money out of those. If you get the Larsen reps statement, and the tile suppliers statement, and an actual professional tilers statement and quote for repairs. You'd have just a strong a case and be £1800 up.

I remember when those were £750 just 2 years ago I think.

 

[HeyMacarenaAye]

Hi Ray,

Here are a few.

The Larsen rep wasn't able to identify the correct grout colour because it's so much lighter than expected.

My main concern is the high risk of patio failure due to poor adhesion.

I'd asked them to repoint some areas an they damaged some tile edges as shown in one of the pics.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It won’t last the first winter!

 

[Bill]

To be fair...I don't think 2mm joints on those pavers is a good call.
However, I do concur that it is poorly laid and the job could have been much neater.

 

[HeyMacarenaAye]

It won’t last the first winter!

Thanks John. Everyone is telling me the same thing. But unless I can obtain a report from a recognised authority in this field then I doubt these guys will budge on making it right. They won't admit fault.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

So what’s the financial situation?
You paid them?

 

[HeyMacarenaAye]

So what’s the financial situation?
You paid them?

Mostly, yes. I withheld £1000 as a token amount until the issues were resolved. At the time I thought it was "just" poor pointing. It's only when I started digging that I discovered that the patio wasn't laid properly and won't last long. Also, I supplied the tiles (£3500) because their supplier couldn't supply this particular Italian brand. So now they either need to make it right at their cost, or refund all costs including tiles plus any other impacted works. We had artificial lawn laid also which will probably need to come up to redo the patio.

 

[Dumbo]

They don't have the knowledge to make it right , also it will cost more than you paid them to correct it .

 

[HeyMacarenaAye]

They don't have the knowledge to make it right , also it will cost more than you paid them to correct it .

I feared as much. What would you do in my situation?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@jcrtiling is a TTA member - won’t be an official report but would still stand up in court.
Look like a total rip out.
Any hairline cracks, loose sounding tiles with freeze thaw action will ‘pop’ after 1st cold weather.
Don’t understand where Larsen adhesive is used or was that the binding to a sand/cement base - what’s under the tiles?

 

[HeyMacarenaAye]

Larsen grout was used. The tiles were laid on a bed of wet concrete. No adhesive or admix was used. And the tiles weren't back-buttered.

 

[Dumbo]

I feared as much. What would you do in my situation?

Talk to a solicitor who specialises in this sort of work , he will tell you what you need in the way of a professional witness .

 

[Just Rizzle]

i think most of the tiles will come up and be able to be used again if you cut through the grout joints so you should be able to save your tiles,
for out door tiling i would of done in a sand cement and lime mix on a 50mm bed with a 8mm comb of tile master ultimate to the back of the tile this is the way my m8 dose it and have yet to see any of his tiles lift and hes a specialist patio tiler in stone and porcelaine.
he also preps the ground by putting a base of sharp sand lime and pea gravel again about 50mm deep and compressed using a wacker plate this he dose with a dry mix then sprinkles with water the lime makes the patio breatherble and grouts in chemical patio grout filler

 

[marbleman]

the Biggest failure in the tiling industry is porcelain laid outside laid by landscapes that just do not understand the installation of porcelain external the trouble is they are given bad installation by supplies this is what they say seal the back of the tile SBR and then you can back butter the tile with neat cement and bed on dry sand cement mix and mallet it down it does not work failure will happen very quickly as cement does not absorb into the tile and the sealer does nothing
What chance for a tiling contractor as the landscapers believe they are doing it right we need the correct installation to be shown to the morons that are selling these products again its the poor customer that is paying the price for bad advice and incorrect installation
USE A TILING CONTRACTOR with the correct background in legations for installation in porcelain outside it is the only way to go

 

[Stu Lilley]

Jeee who are these fitters doing this crap work ....why is there not a name and shame area online