Is this right? Or am I seeing things?

[Pistol]

Hi, hoping someone can help and this is the right place to post.
I’m refurbing my Ensuite and done most of the work myself, except plastering and now tiling. I’m only having the shower enclosure tiled. I built a false wall with a niche in it and the plasterer did a good job (I think) of getting everything as straight and smooth as possible.
Am having it tiled now and the chap is coming back Friday to grout it. However just now going up to inspect it I can’t help but see a ‘bulge’. My eye is just drawn to it. I’m sure it wasn’t on the original plaster work so my question is, what would be the reason for this? The tiler has a good reputation and good references. I haven’t spoken to him about it yet as I’ve only just noticed it. Also, would ANY amount of grout lessen the effect that I’m seeing or is that just wishful thinking.
Last question would be, if it’s just a screw up from the tiler, what is involved in ripping this section off and doing it again?
I’ve posted before and after pics to help explain.
Thanks in advance.

Before 2

• Pistol
• Jun 27, 2018
• 2

Before 1

• Pistol
• Jun 27, 2018

After 1

• Pistol
• Jun 27, 2018
• 2

After 2

• Pistol
• Jun 27, 2018

 

[Old Mod]

You’re not seeing things, it’s there, big and proud.
The only way to know for sure is to remove the pieces that side of the niche.
If they're tight to the wall, then it’s the build, and so on.
If it is the Tiling, it’s no big deal to re do, if it’s the build, it gets more complicated.

 

[Old Mod]

If I was to purely guess,
My money would be on the plastering, sorry, but it’s generally the case unfortunately.
They’re notorious for excessive build up on corners, which makes circumnavigating them tricky at times.
You’re a plasterer aren’t you Doug?
Praps I should re phrase that, proper plasterers don’t generally suffer this issue, it’s the newer ‘skimmers’ in my experience that struggle going round corners.

 

[jobdone]

Plaster beads round the niche proberly sit prouder than the rest of the plaster and the tiles are following this to a degree.

 

[Dougs Third Go]

If I was to purely guess,
My money would be on the plastering, sorry, but it’s generally the case unfortunately.
They’re notorious for excessive build up on corners, which makes circumnavigating them tricky at times.
You’re a plasterer aren’t you Doug?
Praps I should re phrase that, proper plasterers don’t generally suffer this issue, it’s the newer ‘skimmers’ in my experience that struggle going round corners.

always go into corners left handed Marc when I'm plastering, avoid the excess build up that way, tiler first, plasterer 2nd , but to OP it looks, and I'm only surmising here, take note, that it looks like a bulge leading into the back wall where the first niche cut runs into,,,could be the camera though, my go-pro was terrible for twisting images,,,,sure fire way of checking is to put a straight edge across it.

 

[Dougs Third Go]

1. Plaster beads round the niche proberly sit prouder than the rest of the plaster and the tiles are following this to a degree.

   tler will always take a datum from the proudest point and adjust accordingly, never take for granted that previous trades have gone belt and braces approach
   

 

[Flintstone]

It could well be the plastering, but even so that’s no excuse to leave a finish like that, poor job, specifically his mosaic work

 

[Pistol]

Thanks for all the responses so far, great to have other viewpoints. Cameras don’t always pick up what you need them to that’s for sure, but I was constantly looking for problems in the plaster that might affect the final finish, in fact the plasterer was very upfront with where might be an issue (old house, old walls) but the work he did on the enclosure I didn’t see any issues with. Maybe because I’m neither a plasterer or tiler that may be the reason but I can’t believe this wasn’t avoidable.
In case it’s in doubt, there is a definite convex bulge on the tiles on the left, if I put a straight edge over it, it rocks between the two angles.

I’ll speak to him today and see what he says.

 

[Pistol]

It could well be the plastering, but even so that’s no excuse to leave a finish like that, poor job, specifically his mosaic work

I hadn’t really picked up on the mosaics but looking further at it there are some gaps I’m not happy with. Can you detail what you’re seeing that you wouldn’t accept?
Cheers

 

[Flintstone]

All the mosaic in the niche are wavey and looked to have sagged, and all the joints between the sheets on the feature mosaics are far wider than they should be, also the gap to the ceiling is really unsightly, there’s no way to make that look good!

 

[Andy Allen]

Thanks for all the responses so far, great to have other viewpoints. Cameras don’t always pick up what you need them to that’s for sure, but I was constantly looking for problems in the plaster that might affect the final finish, in fact the plasterer was very upfront with where might be an issue (old house, old walls) but the work he did on the enclosure I didn’t see any issues with. Maybe because I’m neither a plasterer or tiler that may be the reason but I can’t believe this wasn’t avoidable.
In case it’s in doubt, there is a definite convex bulge on the tiles on the left, if I put a straight edge over it, it rocks between the two angles.

I’ll speak to him today and see what he says.

What a shame you never put a straight edge on the plaster before it was tiled and got him back to do his job properly....!!

 

[Old Mod]

What a shame you never put a straight edge on the plaster before it was tiled and got him back to do his job properly....!!

See, now I’d of said it’s a shame it was plastered in the first place.

 

[Old Mod]

, tiler first, plasterer 2nd ,

Sorry no offence meant Doug.

 

[Flintstone]

Plasterers can certainly make a good wall bad !

 

[Pistol]

So I just spoke to him about all the faults and he said the wall must have been bowed. Well, this wasn’t brought to my attention before, he didn’t say anything about it, I built the wall and checked it was straight (plus or minus a few small variances but nothing like this).
What bothers me is I asked about the gap at the top of the wall and he said well that’s because you’ve got two types of tile and you’d end up with a small bit of mosaic at the top - but wouldn’t that look better than a huge load of grout? Also asked about the alignment on the mosaics and he said these can be slightly off in measurement so you end up with these misalignment. That just seems like complete BS to me. Surely you put the spacers in at each level to line them up no? Will try and upload some pics of the alignments being out

 

[Andy Allen]

I would say the reason for the bulge is a problem with the niche, it runs out of level from the bottom to the top...

The tell tale sign is this joint getting wider as he is trying to bend the tile back to meet the wall..

This could be down to poor construction of the niche and surrounding wall or the plastering.

Some mosaic can be all over the place and out of line on the mesh..
Having said that, you should never leave a job like that, you just cut through the mesh and realine them.
The metal trims should be mitred too..

All in all the job looks rushed to me, not done by a skilled tiler more a general handy man...

 

[Time's Ran Out]

This one section should tell everything you need to know!
It’s not an acceptable job and wouldn’t be passed on any level of construction.
By tiling on your prepared walls your tiler is responsible for the finish so take it up with him!

 

[Spare Tool]

Here we go again hanging the tiler out to dry, mosaics aside and trim mitres, the walls obviously not plumb in the first place, you can bet your bottom dollar there's a bulge just under the neiche thats thrown the whole wall out and that bottom L cut is tight to the wall, what was he supposed to do bar go with the wall, there's an external corner on the shower he couldn't start packing above the neich out to make it right, couldn't overboard either for same reason. Just wonder how you the customer would have handled hearing " that's not tileable, whole wall needs taking down and rebuilding" little naive of the tiler to just tile it and say nothing but experience will tell you when you have to be firm with customers and point out issues then either prep it properly 'yourself' or walk away.. Hear all too often "it's ready to tile" when its quiet clearly not!!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@Andystiletiling - he’s not a professional tiler for all the reasons in your 1st paragraph!

 

[Spare Tool]

Oh I was under the impression the guy was a professional...as in tiled for a living. Inexperienced yes.
I've done it myself in the past...cracked on and said nothing and tried to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear but as well as learning with time to overcome problems and up your level of skill, IMO having the experience also gives you the confidence to tell customers this prep just wont do.

 

[Bill]

The tile trims do not have to be mitred..... they do look better when done so but there is no rule.

The wall is not straight, the mosaic sheets look poorly aligned on the mesh.

Now, all of these things can be fixed and some could have been done at the start of tiling but I can bet that the 'tiler' would have given a price for plumb walls and decent quality mosaic sheets - if the 'tiler' then needs to sort anything out - the customer should realise that the original quote is not sufficient and let the 'tiler' recommence with adjusted payment - that way both the client and 'tiler' are happy.

 

[Pistol]

Thanks for everyone’s responses. I’m not wishing to start a fight here between plasterers and tilers, just looking for fair and honest opinion to get to know what to do next, so appreciate the input. To add some more detail that might be relevant, I approached two professional tilers for this, this chap being one of them. Yes he was cheaper but has a great record on Checkatrade (For what it’s worth, not endorsing) and asked some sensible questions. Both tilers measured up and inspected the job, neither mentioned any irregularities in the wall but also appreciate that at first sight maybe these things aren’t that apparent.

However, I built that wall myself. Whilst I’m no master builder, I’ve refurbished a whole house myself and learnt a lot over the years, enough to use a spirit level anyway. In fact I studded the back wall out and reboarded the right hand wall, I chose non skewed, non bowed wood for the studs and did everything I could to get it right. Pictures can be deceiving but I’ll add a pic of the niche before tiling. My mistake I’ve learnt from is to take a pic with a level on it for future reference (wouldn’t have thought I needed it but there you go). Personally I can’t see anything that would cause the bulge that I’m seeing on the tile but again, maybe there’s more to it. The tilers response on the phone was that he sees it all the time and the wall must have been bowed, but I can guarantee you, had he come to me and said ‘that wall is bowed, you’re going to have a skewed tile on that wall’ I would have said right let’s get that corrected first, as opposed to wasting all that money on tiles. But nothing was said. The response on the phone was surprise that the bulge was even there and he hadn’t noticed it......??
For those seeing a drop in the niche I should add, a slight slope was added to the bottom of the niche to allow for water run off, I’ve added a close up of that back corner if it helps.
Again, thanks for the responses. At this point I’m thinking there’s not a lot I can do except rip them off and start again.

 

[Andy Allen]

The tile trims do not have to be mitred..... they do look better when done so but there is no rule.

The wall is not straight, the mosaic sheets look poorly aligned on the mesh.

Now, all of these things can be fixed and some could have been done at the start of tiling but I can bet that the 'tiler' would have given a price for plumb walls and decent quality mosaic sheets - if the 'tiler' then needs to sort anything out - the customer should realise that the original quote is not sufficient and let the 'tiler' recommence with adjusted payment - that way both the client and 'tiler' are happy.

Hands up who doesn't mitre there trims..!
(Besides Tom)...

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Only hand I could find!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@Pistol - no need to suggest a difference of opinion between plasterers and tilers as it happens between every follow on trade - unfortunately tilers are expected to put everyone else’s sh*t right!
At the end of the day a professional would have suggested fully waterproofing this area, possibly using a Wedi type board and not relying on plaster walls to a ‘wet’ situation.

 

[Pistol]

So pre-empting here. Who happens to be in Kent that might want some work rectifying? (Don’t all jump at once )

 

[Andy Allen]

So pre-empting here. Who happens to be in Kent that might want some work rectifying? (Don’t all jump at once )

Have you paid the tiler...??
Have you given him the chance to put it right..??

 

[Pistol]

No haven’t paid yet and he’s coming tomorrow (with the intention of grouting,but I can’t as it is), hence the pre-empting. Of course I’d give him full opportunity to rectify, or certainly show me why it’s like it is and what needs to be done

 

[Bill]

Hands up who doesn't mitre there trims..!
(Besides Tom)...

I do mitre my trims..... it is just a point that there is no rule......... I remember tiling when there were not any trims......

 

[Bill]

And another point to @Pistol ........ why such a large gap between the tray and the walls?

Do you realise that is now a weak point for leakage no matter how much silicone you may have put in the gap before tiling?