Limestone detiorating ?

[Ttt1601]

Been having a million conversations with the customer, stone supplier and Builder this evening about a I limestone job I did 18 months ago, all laid to suppliers specs with suppliers materials but the stone is acting is an odd way as picture

I'm going to have look at it Tomorrow anyone else had this happen or know what it might be?

The customer has said they've been cleaning it with a cap full of flash in a bucket of water which is a worry, but it's only 8 tiles out of 40m2 that are acting in this way.

 

[J Sid]

are the tiles grouped together of random area's?

 

[Ttt1601]

Haven't seen it yet, but customer said on the phone just 1 area so I guess all grouped

 

[J Sid]

they look a tad darker, possible water leak under them ?

 

[Ttt1601]

My first thought was maybe a moisture problem, but shouldn't be it's a new extension, I'm maybe thinking the flash has removed the sealer then with it being in the kitchen area something acidic has been spilt over them? The colour difference may of been like that from the off as there was some heavy differences in the stone before laying it's the cracked ish look all over and also he said the words "small holes" they didn't look like that when installed them, but I don't know what would cause it?

 

[Blunt Tool]

Looks like they have been filled, could be a batch with more filler than the back of a plasterers van

 

[Ttt1601]

Stone supplier said and I quote, can't be the stone it's all been cut from the same block. How while this is horseshit he it should have no filler in it, if it is filler how can I prove it has been filled and it is now those filler lines reacting?

 

[Blunt Tool]

Pick it out,it will feel, crumble and smell like resin

 

[Ttt1601]

Ok cool will have a look Tomorrow, customer is ok about it, he's more going at thw supplier than me, and it's the supplier that's trying to kick it back to me just want to go armed with what I need lol

 

[J Sid]

if it was all cut from the same stone could just be imperfections' in that bit of the block leading to your 8 or so weak bits of stone which are breaking down with use and wrong cleaning products.

I always leave a sample of cleaning products and a method statement with each job now, care of Lithofin.

 

[Ttt1601]

this supplier was having none of it that there could be any chance it was his stone at faul.t i think this one is going to end up being put back on the customer, i have offered to replace the 8 stone free labour if necessary just as a courtesy but would like have it be as a favour rather than me fixing work, ive got a good rep in that village and i want to keep it. ive also suggested a full strip back and reseal of the whole floor then only use what i tell them this time to clean it!!

 

[Lithofin BOB]

You can strip one stone to determine if this is a failing/ whitening sealer due to incorect maintenance,
What sealer did you use , impregnator or topical ?
Did you mix out the stones when you laid them or take them as they come from the pallet
Is this damage near a possible leak area, sink ,washing machine, check pipes in cupboards if so.

 

[Ttt1601]

Hello Bob the dlsealer was one the stone supplier supplied, when I spoke to he brought the dealer to which I said it was their stuff normally I use lithofin, he just oh right well its basically the same stuff just rebranded so I have no real idea of the quality but basically it was stain stop that has been used by the sound of his comment, I'm going to have a look on my lunch break I think if I can see it with my own eyes it may give a clearer picture as to what is going on. What would be best to use to strip one back? And yes they were mixed I had a Labourer on site pre sealing and shuffling them , well was supposed to shuffle them can't promise as I wasn't watching him tho

 

[Ttt1601]

Hello @Lithofin BOB just been to have a look, no real signs of a leak the area that this is showing up in is the area between island and other worktop so highest traffic area, grout has also discoloured here too it all looks grubby if you know what I mean, had a feel in where the little cracks are and no resin is present, but resin is present in other stones in different areas, would stripping back buffing then some kind of waxy type sealer fill these in and hold up if properly maintained?

 

[Lithofin BOB]

we have wax off or use a specific stone stripper; if this is a high traffic area is there just grease and grimes into the open pores of this stone ,which is highlighting these shapes. poss test one stone with the stripping agent and then further wash with an alkaline cleaning product . you will need for these to fully dry and re apply the sealer. possible that a wax could be used, but it will not bind that well and your client will be left with a shine on the floor
when your guy had impregnated the stone ,did it appear more shiny than without the impregnator.

 

[Ttt1601]

not shiny no, slightly darker it is a tumbled stone, but has had some sort of polish or hone on it as 98% of the surface each is smooth like honed and filled it just the edge and a couple of pit/ veins that have any kind of texture to them, think i will try and strip, buff them reseal, but will test first on a stone and talk to the customer, cheers bob will report back when ive had a play round with spare stone

 

[Blunt Tool]

Do you have a set of diamond pads? You could buff them down to clean again, then wheat colour stone fill pock marks and cracks, buff down again when dry then diamond polish back again then reseal! That's what I would do

 

[Ttt1601]

yea was thinking something similar, but want to try other options first as the supplier isnt going to pay towards anything, and the customer really doesnt want to cover cost i can tell, and i dont mind doing a bit of work free ( as its a small village full of money and it only makes me look good lol) to see if things work before it comes to that level of work and i want to be paid for it, but will have to speak to the customer again. what diamond pads to you use @callatiler ?

 

[Blunt Tool]

yea was thinking something similar, but want to try other options first as the supplier isnt going to pay towards anything, and the customer really doesnt want to cover cost i can tell, and i dont mind doing a bit of work free ( as its a small village full of money and it only makes me look good lol) to see if things work before it comes to that level of work and i want to be paid for it, but will have to speak to the customer again. what diamond pads to you use @callatiler ?

Speak to @ATSDiamondTools, if you are doing a lot of stone installations you would be best to get full wet set either hand or machine, 50 grit upwards to 10000 polish

 

[Ttt1601]

ive got hand pads just not machine pads, i dont usually use ats, but will give them a go if it comes to buffing these back fully, sod that by hand lol cheeers mate

 

[Lithofin BOB]

Test a simple ligh cleaner first that the client would use if they had to deep clean their floor, could this be a simple maintenance issue, you do not supply self cleaning floors, if you start padding this floor you will have to match the machine finish, if you even strip it you are completing works that your client may think there was an issue with your install,

 

[Concrete guy]

On limestone or other sedimentary/metamorphic stone (marble, travertine) then silicon carbide discs are probably more appropriate for cleaning and re honing or re polishing.

However if the surface is textured and you want to retain the texture then you need silicon carbide brushes otherwise discs will simply remove the texture and smooth out the tiles worked, creating another problem.

Don't do localised areas, think of it like car bodywork where repairs have to be blended into other panels. Refinish an area of tiles and try to blend into the surrounding ones if you're not doing the whole floor.

Always try a chemical solution to the problem first, mechanical cleaning/polishing is the next step if chemicals don't work.

 

[Ttt1601]

im going to pick up a left over stone from the customer this weekend, dirty it up a bit and have a play round, customer is not trying to hold this as my fault, i he has made that very clear just as i have made it very clear i am taking no responabilty for this issue, just trying to offer a bit of free after care as part of the service, anything more than a quick clean will be being charged for. cheers again gents will see how the cleaning goes and see

 

[Spud]

I was always under the impression that flash was acidic and shouldn't be used on natural stone , I guess it is what it is now but hopefully you can rectify it for them