Important Changes to Tiling Standards

[Chelly]

I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tiling services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...

You would think so wouldn’t you! Unfortunately they don’t seem to be very chatty

 

[MTiler]

Have you thought about getting a report from The Tile Association done? Not sure of the cost off hand.

 

[Tile Shop]

Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible
d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.

 

[Chelly]

Have you thought about getting a report from The Tile Association done? Not sure of the cost off hand.

I looked at this last night, think it is about £800 for a report but I will give them a ring, seems pricey but maybe a last resort

 

[Dumbo]

Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,

 

[Chelly]

Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,

Unfortunately the fitter has washed his hands of it. What happens next is remedial fitters come to complete snags, arranged by Wickes customer services. As I listed a number of issues including tiles and items that have not yet been completed then it gets escalated to customer relations who is the go between. They are liaising with the installation manager who is the one who said when he came to inspect that it is British Standard to start with full tile at bath and that he believes that this is acceptable work. He doesn’t respond to their emails and just doesn’t seem to care. If they phone me I follow up with an email. Wickes guarantee all of the work so my beef is with them.

 

[acaciaguy]

Have they tanked (waterproofed) the wet areas around shower?

 

[Boggs]

“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.

 

[Chelly]

Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible
d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.

Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!

 

[Chelly]

Have they tanked (waterproofed) the wet areas around shower?

I really wouldn’t know, I will ask this also.

 

[Chelly]

“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.

You would think, however they all think he has done a great job

 

[acaciaguy]

I really wouldn’t know, I will ask this also.

Please do. That is in the British standards as updated in 2018

 

[Boggs]

You would think, however they all think he has done a great job

If you can produce work to that standard and get a pat on the back I am going to work for them.

 

[Italy]

Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!

sorry, i was wrong

 

[Italy]

Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible
d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.

should, could, where possible.......
seems very vague
very different from uni standards.
they must be is better than they should.
or is the translator wrong?

 

[Chelly]

Please do. That is in the British standards as updated in 2018

Will let you know how it goes

 

[Balloo]

I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.

Absolutely nonsense and misinformation BS is not a about that , its only a guideline for standard practice .

 

[Spare Tool]

Absolutely nonsense and misinformation BS is not a about that , its only a guideline for standard practice .

We know...but it is good practice to follow it

 

[Balloo]

I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.

 

[hmtiling]

I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.

I certainly wouldn't let it slide if it was my house. Are you saying you would?

 

[Dougs Third Go]

could the ceiling be battened and lowered?

 

[Tile Shop]

I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.

"Caught out".... He wouldn't have been if he'd planned it correctly instead of being lazy and assuming a full tile from a convenient point would be ok. Setting out and good preparation is a tilers job, part of the service. Either the ceiling could have been sorted, tiles laid out to suit a bigger cut and less of an eye-sore, or have a discussion with the customer how to proceed, stick it in their court... Not wing it and say "sorry, best I could do".

So taking a look at myself as you asked and yes, I would still dispute. It looks arse. Aside from practicality, aesthetics is a huge part of why tiles are used. And that is certainly not aesthetically pleasing to me.

 

[Perry]

Have made the mistake when I first started but removed them and redone it.

 

[Tim Saunders]

I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to make sure they're happy before I start fixing

 

[acaciaguy]

I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to Makel sure they're happy before I start fixing

Fully agree Tim. I find it the most interesting / stressful part. Especially with small tiles. Take your time. Check and re check and it works out fine. Also. There is usually a compromise somewhere. As you say check with client. Get them to sign off on all final decisions