Tiling Standards (BS 5385) | British Wall and Floor Tiling Standards - IN FULL

[Dougs Third Go]

could the ceiling be battened and lowered?

 

[Tile Shop]

I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.

"Caught out".... He wouldn't have been if he'd planned it correctly instead of being lazy and assuming a full tile from a convenient point would be ok. Setting out and good preparation is a tilers job, part of the service. Either the ceiling could have been sorted, tiles laid out to suit a bigger cut and less of an eye-sore, or have a discussion with the customer how to proceed, stick it in their court... Not wing it and say "sorry, best I could do".

So taking a look at myself as you asked and yes, I would still dispute. It looks arse. Aside from practicality, aesthetics is a huge part of why tiles are used. And that is certainly not aesthetically pleasing to me.

 

[Perry]

Have made the mistake when I first started but removed them and redone it.

 

[Tim Saunders]

I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to make sure they're happy before I start fixing

 

[acaciaguy]

I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to Makel sure they're happy before I start fixing

Fully agree Tim. I find it the most interesting / stressful part. Especially with small tiles. Take your time. Check and re check and it works out fine. Also. There is usually a compromise somewhere. As you say check with client. Get them to sign off on all final decisions

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Ask the client how to set the room out!
That’s why they are paying you - to do a professional job.
Clients away on holiday, that’s okay I’ll send him a photo of how it’s going to look - he’s going to be really confident in your ability.
What’s been done is sh*te and these chancers do our trade no favours.

 

[acaciaguy]

I agree John. I advise clients on what I wil do and look best. However they are the ones that have to look at it forever. If they are happy i am

To avoid any conflation of posts. I agree John the work op posted is rubbish

 

[peterwhayward]

I would say that almost all of my bathroom jobs have a cut or trimmed tile at the bath ( or shower tray)to avoid that awful finish at ceiling level or anywhere else.

 

[Soso]

Hello all,

I have a query regarding the British standards. I note that they say the following below about notched towelling method. What is confusing me is the bit about 50% contact. Surely this is 50% while its being placed on the wall but that the twisting and sliding action should result in 100% coverage ? I have a builder trying to justify dot and dab based on this wording. Or trying to justify not covering the whole tile.

Also, can i also assume that 50% contact still means that 100% of the wall should be covered in adhesive...the 50% is just the ribs sticking out of the adhesive from trowelling?

Second question is that i just need to be able to explain the difference between back buttering and dot and dab in layman terms for a judge. Can anyone help me ?

Notched trowelling method
Adhesives should be applied to the background with a trowel as a floated coat, the adhesive should be pressed into the surface, and combed through with a suitably designed notched trowel of the type recommended by the adhesive manufacturer: this gives a series of ribs into which the dry tiles should be pressed with a twisting or sliding action; this operation has to be carried out correctly to ensure that the adhesive wets the back of the tile and achieves an area of contact of at least 50%, spread evenly over the back of the tile.
Whatever type of trowel is used, it should apply the adhesive
in a manner such that the finished bed thickness is no greater than that recommended by the manufacturer and that maximum practical contact between tile and adhesive is achieved.
The period of time during which tiles can be adequately bedded after spreading the adhesive is approximately 20 min but this varies according to the prevailing atmospheric conditions. It is important that more adhesive should not be spread on the wall than can be covered with tiles within the open time.
NOTE 1 The amount of adhesive used and the height of the ribs obtained are governed by the angle at which the trowel is held against the surface. The amount of contact is also dependent on the twisting or sliding of the tiles as they are pressed onto the ribs of adhesive.
NOTE 2 It is good practice to remove a tile occasionally as fixing proceeds to check that adequate contact and wetting is being maintained with the adhesive.

 

[Tile Shop]

BS5385 part 1, 2018
7.1.2 - Bedding materials:
blah blah....
Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique.

So important, they repeat it in 7.2.1.6 - Tile joints
Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique.

Think your 50% spread is also out of date:
6.2.3.1 - General
Tiles with a surface area of 0.1 m2, should be solidly bedded.
Tiles with a surface area of less than 0.1 m2, but which weigh more per square metre than 70% of the background's capacity to carry the weight, should be solidly bedded.

Your exact wording above from 7.2.1.5.1 Notched Trowelling method, "this operation has to be carried out correctly to ensure that the adhesive wets the back of the tile and achieves an area of contact of at least 50%, spread evenly over the back of the tile". - This sentence was removed in the last 2018 update.

So yeah, your builder is wrong! Sack him and get yourself someone who knows what they are doing.