Where can I do C&G training ? - Tile Advice

[thevinnyofoz]

Hello

Here I am again asking questions about training to be a tiler.

I live on the Leeds side of Wakefield, post code WF5 and im 30, ive decided not to do the college route of training as I mostly hear that the training is total rubbish and a waste of 2 years and nearly 2k.

Ive also decided not to go the short course route because they dont give the NVQ 1/2 ( unless you´re already working as a tiler, which I am not ) or city and guilds qualification.

So im wanting to know where I can do a full City and Guilds course in my own time and at my own expence, this in my opinion is the best way forward seeing as I dont work in the trade already and im 30.

Id also like to hear your own opinions on this.

Cheers

 

[UKTT Darren]

Hi Mate
If you need to get out there and make money straight away, we have a proven track record of people on here that have done just that. You will only need an NVQ if you are intending to go on a building site, even if you go on a 4-6 week course you would still have to be assessed out on site in your own business to gain the NVQ. trouble is you wouldnt last 2 minuits on a site with that kind of experiance behind you as you would be too slow at the job, doesnt matter how good a tiler you are on a site, if your too slow, then your off. Learn how to tile then take your time in domestic market, build up your speed and confidence then go for your NVQ assessment later on when you are ready for it

Regards
Darren

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

Hi thevinyofoz,

I would agree with Darren that the NVQ L2 is only necessary if you are intending to go down the site based route, although it will also be an added selling point to potential customers when quoting to win work in the domestic market also.

As for being to slow, the majority of site based work is price work per square metre so depending on how fast you are will determine how much you will take home at the end of the week.

I would say a realistic figure when starting on site after completing a longer course would be around 10 square metres per day ( depending what type of tile you was fixing ) the above is based on 150x150 ceramics.

Whichever route you decide to go down the correct training and business skills are fundamental to succeed in your new trade.

Visit as many different centres as possible and make sure you are comfortable with the facilities and tutors before making a decision.

Good luck and all the best

 

[thevinnyofoz]

I agree with you both, I want to get the skills before the trade picks up again, but how long a course should I do ? and is experience alone enough to get set on by a company ( without C&G / NVQ ) ?

Im not wanting to set up on my own, id prefer to work for someone first if im to give my full time job when the time comes.

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

I agree with you both, I want to get the skills before the trade picks up again, but how long a course should I do ? and is experience alone enough to get set on by a company ( without C&G / NVQ ) ?

Im not wanting to set up on my own, id prefer to work for someone first if im to give my full time job when the time comes.

If you are looking to work direct for a company then in my opinion NVQ is the way to go.

We are able to deliver this Qualification and you will be taught by a Qualified A1 Assessor / Tutor whilst on the course.

All the best

 

[UKTT Darren]

There is no way a company will take you on, thats the reality, first reason is that your new, why would they when they could employ someone experienced and second as said before you will be too slow, i wouldnt take you on to do 10 metres a day and pay you a wage when someone experienced would do 15 - 20 metres for the same wage.
Self employed is the only way to go

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

That's wrong of you to discourage a new tiler to the industry like that.

There is no reason why a company would not take on a new tiler as I said the majority of the
Work is on a price per metre so the company only pay for what you do.

Everyone has to start somewhere and they don't all start in the domestic market.

Good luck thevinyofoz

 

[thevinnyofoz]

I understand your view NETT Darren but it seems a bit of a joke if someone wants to change career but has to go pay the best part of a grand plus on a few weeks course then go self employed and try and make it pay. Where is the support ?!

Not easy for those of us wanting a change but find ourself over 25 with bills ect.

Taking 6 weeks off work and spending 2,500k on a C&G course is also a lot to ask seeing that this qualification is worth nothing in 2010 regarding site work. Im anoyed that to get a NVQ 2 in my hand I first need to get a job as a bloody tiler to then get the NVQ 2 to then get set on in the first place !

Self employed I agree is the best way as you get out what you put in without this merrygoround effect.

 

[thevinnyofoz]

Am I right in saying that if I was to become a Sole Trader then work in my spare time as a self employed tiler ( after a intensive course ), that I would be able to work towards an NVQ 2 ? How would this work ?

Im real sorry I rant on so much its just that when I go for this change I will go full steam, I have no time for messing about, this is something I want doing right first time.

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

Hi thevinyofoz,

You are right City & Guilds will not be recognized, which is why we award NVQ L2 & L3.

It is not a requirement that you are either Employed or Self Employed as a tiler to obtain your NVQ Level 2 .

There are 5 Mandatory units that you will have to prove competence in, by competent I mean each time you perform a task it must result in the same standard each time.

After a 4 - 6 week course the majority of students will have the required underpinning knowledge and skills to achieve this, although we advise getting a few jobs under your belt before you undertake the on-site assessor visits.

The assessment visits do not have to be undertaken on site, they can be in domestic properties i.e friends and family even your own home they just cant be done in a simulated environment.

The process usually involves 3 to 4 visits, each time the assessor arranges to visit he will give you actions that will need to be completed before the next, this will be gathering evidence / reference etc. He will also give feedback on how you progress is going and when he expects the award to be achieved by.

There is a 10 week rule on the qualification, which means it cant be completed before this time.

The process is very simple and the units believe it or not are very basic, the Level 2 is a basic industry standard.

If you need to speak with me direct about any questions you may have please feel free to call me for advise on 01903 739 407, I will be back in the office on Thursday.

Good luck and all the best. don't let this get you down its a process that everyone working in the commercial sector will eventually have to go through.

 

[thevinnyofoz]

Many thanks everyone. Thats what I needed. I have finally decided on my path, id like to thank you all who have helped me out with all the advice. This really means a lot to me as ive been looking to make a change for the last one and a half years but have kept putting it off as it has not been clear which path to take.

 

[UKTT Darren]

I am not discouraging any new tilers into the industry, far from it, but i am being real on the employment side of things, NVQs dont stand for nothing really to a customer that wants her bathroom done, how many people ask if you are qualified when you turn up at a job, very few if any, most dont even ask the gas trademan and by law they have to be, Do some reasurch and ring 20 tiling companies up and tell them that youve been tiling for 4 weeks and see how many would even give you an interview, let alone a job, i would predict none.

Self employment is the way to go if you want to break into this industry unfortunatly, get your training, run the tiling along side your other job if you still need the income comming in and find your tiling feet that way until you have built up enough contacts and confidence to move over full time

Anyone thats been on my course will tell you that its a business tiling course i run and that comes from me, everyone that leaves my course should know where there options lye after leaving, its no good getting some bank to tell you how to run a business in tiling, what do they know about how to find work as a tiler, you cant learn to run a business from going to college or Uni, you learn in the real world, if you aint run your own business with your own money, then you aint qualified to tell anybody how it works, thats my opinion on it, watch the apprentice and see some of the pathetic efforts made by these uni people, most of them havent a clue

Business is hard and only the fittest survive, but if you get it right and many do, it will be the best decision you ever make, Ive been self employed for 22 years since i was 18 years old, be master of your own destiny, make the decisions and make it work, failure is not an option in my book, dont let it be yours

 

[Danny@ Diamond]

I am totally amazed that you would make such comments on a forum for new tilers.

As professional training centres we should be encouraging new tilers entering the industry to do things the correct way and get qualified not discouraging them and trying to talk them out of it. This is the way that the construction industry is moving towards at last, that's why so much Government money is being thrown at the industry to qualify our work force through Train to Gain.

Never mind what Mrs Smith asks for when you arrive to tile her bathroom, it will first become a requirement on the commercial side and then it will edge into the domestic market.

Whether it is a requirement or not I will always advise students to go down the qualification route, not walk away after spending their hard earned money with an in house certificate that means nothing.

It is the responsibility of training providers to guide students down the correct path from day one and encouraging development with skills and qualifications.

I feel that is enough said

 

[SmileyTiley]

Hi guys...thought I'd put my thoughts as well... it might help calm you down Danny :grouphug:

I am a career-changer, 40 something and female. A tall order to find something new which will a)pay the bills b)not involve huge amounts of cash to set up and c)doesn't involve spending two years going back to school.

I decided to become a tiler and have just finished a course at Darren's training centre NETT. Now whilst it's true that it's impossible to learn a trade in 4 or 8 days or even 2 - 4 weeks, what I found on Darren's course was the amount of information given on the 'business' side was absolutely invaluable. You can practice sticking tiles down 'til the cows come home, but if you don't 'get' the business side of things firmly in your head - well, you ain't gonna make much money - and that applies whether you decide to go employed or self-employed.

For me personally, there is no-one who's going to give me a full time job as either a qualified tiler OR a trainee..it's just not going to happen. FACT. I've made the calls. The ONLY way to make a career change in today's economic climate is to be self-employed and really go for it.

My advice to you thevinnyofoz if go for a short course of 4-8 days, get registered for accreditation, then get home and tile everything in sight! The course will give you the business confidence and the practice will give confidence to get started. Start small...aim high my friend.

Jeni

 

[UKTT Darren]

Thanks Jeni
I dont think danny above read my post before answering, nowhere does it say that im discouraging people not to take a qualification, I do nvq qualifications myself to experienced people, which is what an NVQ is origionally for, even city and guilds say you need 2 years experience before being assessed on site, thats because they recognise that it will take you time to learn the tricks of the trade out in the real world, 4 weeks in a training centre then straight out to be assessed at NVQ level is a joke in my eyes and no way could you stand up to someone with longer experience, Im not taking anything away from 4 weeks training, just the NVQ bit

Courses are a great way of fast tracking you into a new career, thats what we do and help you get to where you want to be. As said before courses will take you so far then its out in the real world where the real learning starts, as Jenni says above you have to get the business side right or you dont do any tiling if you cant find the jobs.

I stand by what i said, companies will not take you on without the experience, NVQ or not, if you cant keep up your sacked, and as for you only get paid for the work you do, thats rubbish because companies are fined if the deadlines are not met, so someone taking 3 weeks to do what someone experienced will do in 1 week, will not last 2 minuits, Self employment or nothing really, Im not going to tell someone to come on my couse just to get the money and promiss that they will walk straight into a job, reality is you are going to have to find the biz yourself, thats what i teach people, how to build a career as a self employed tiler and take away the fear of being self employed by explaining how to be.

Start off by taking on jobs that you are comfortable with and build from there, NVQ on sites is reallity by 2010, there is no plan at all at the moment to be nvq qualified for domestic jobs, once you got your experience working for yourself put in for your NVQ assessment through OSAT route and a assessor will come to your place of work and put you though your NVQ, this is generally 2 prior years experience, not 4 weeks knowledge and artificial practice in a training centre, 2 years in the real world