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Wanted to put up a post about tile with natural stone, most of us on here use a lot of it and a lot of us prefer using it to man made tiles. I have come across so many poor stone installations that I would like to put up a post with a Little info on tile with natural stone and the differences to using a man made tile. If anybody has anything that they would like to add, pics of stone jobs that they have carried out or more info then please feel free :thumbsup:

Natural stone Tile

Natural stone tiles have become very popular in recent years partly due to the technology used to cut and distribute stone around the world progressing. This has led to natural stone becoming much more affordable and easily accessible. Many tile suppliers and building merchants now offer natural stone tiles for less then some ceramics.Unfortunately, more often then not this stone is of very poor quality and often people do not consider the extra work and materials needed to install natural stone.

tile with natural stone is a totally different animal to tile with ceramics and my advice to anybody thinking about using natural stone in a DIY tile project would be to get an experienced professional to carry out the work.


Installing Natural Stone Tiles

Given the benefit of an appropriate selection, most stone tiles can be installed wherever a ceramic tile can be used. In that sense, they require the same setting beds and support and the same thin bed skills used for ceramics but there are some differences in installation.
It is imperative that the correct adhesives/grouts/primers and sealers are chosen for a natural stone installation. The right materials can mean the difference between an installation that will last a life time or a failure (I will add a section at the end of this post on how and where to get the right materials).
Use a white cement based https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ for light stone as many light coloured stones can be stained by pigments in grey cement.

The processing that the stone had gone through may have left a thin layer of dust on the back of the tile that must be removed before used as the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ will not be able to bond to the tile correctly. If the backs of the tiles seem dust then wiping them off with a clean sponge and water should be enough to remove the dust, be sure to leave the stone to dry before using them.

Because we are dealing with a natural material, natural stone tiles are often not square and differ in shape and size. Some natural stone have a tendency to warp when when in prolonged contact with water and others are not suitable for floor installations. If you are unsure if your stone is suitable for your installation then check with the supplier.

Back-buttering

It is recommended that all floor tiles, whether they are natural stone or man made are back buttered, this means that as well as spreading https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ onto the floor, the tiler will also spread a thin layer of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ on to the back of the tile using the flat edge of his trowel before pressing the tile into the bed of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ on the floor. The reasoning for this is to gain 100% coverage of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ under the tile. Any voids under the tiles will remain a weak and will sooner or later crack and split. When tile with natural stone, it is very important to get a total coverage of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ on the back of the tile, on floors or walls, as some stone will stain slightly even with a white https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ so each tile should be back buttered before being fixed. Some stone, such as travertine, may have a honey comb structure and these holes in the tile need to be filled with https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ before being fixed. When using natural stone on floors back buttering is Even more important and the need to achieve 100% https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ contact is vital as natural stone is not as strong as most man made tiles and will crack and break up without the right https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ bed.

Cutting Natural Stone

Most stone tiles are best cut with a wet saw fitted with a diamond blade but a well-equipped installer should have a variety of blades for different types of stone. When cutting stone with a wet saw the same technique as cutting ceramic tile is needed: a slow approach to the blade until contact is made, more pressure and cutting speed through the body of the tile, and then a slow exit at the end of the cut. For cutouts it is much easier to use a small dry-cutting diamond blade. The small blade will allow you to get right into the corners for a neat finish. After cutting natural stone with a wet saw, it is recommended that you leave the stone to dry off before bedding it into https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ as any moistuer on the back of the tile can provent the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ from bonding.

Basic Fabrication Techniques

There are endless varieties of different tile trim on the market now a days that help make a tiled room look very nicely finished. But with a stone installation, I think that tile trim can ruin the finish and make the installation look cheap (this is only my opinion). This is another example why it is better to get an experienced professional to carry out a stone installation, a professional with the correct tools can cut and shape stone to give a stunning finish that will never age or go out of date. I am hoping that some of the other members will add some pics of the stone that they have profiled at the end of this post.

Tips on fixing stone


  • Check the shades of the stone before you begin to tile, if there are differences in the colour of the stone then try to spread the different tiles out
  • Check the sizes of the tiles before you begin tile, if the tiles are not all the same thickness then it is a big help to know which are thin and which are thick. If you are laying a floor, try to lay the thin pieces in low traffic areas
  • Make sure that your stone is dust free and dry before fixing
  • As with all tile, the correct trowel must be used to spread the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/
  • The https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive//grout must be suitable for natural stone and of the right colour so as not to satin the tiles
  • Every tile should be back buttered before being pressed into to the bed of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/
  • "Back-fill" each tile as you fix it to ensure that there is a good contact of https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ around the edge of the tile
  • Work as cleanly as you can, keep a clean bucket of water and sponge next to you and wash off each tile as you go
  • Be sure to leave stone to dry for long enough before sealing
  • Above all the correct substrate preparation must be carried out

tile with stone can be almost a different job to tile, some of the professionals on this site are more like stone masons than tilers. If you are not confident in using stone then I would recommend spending some time on this site and read up as much as possible on using natural stone, there is loads of info on here. In my opinion, tile with stone is no a DIY job, it is a job for a pro.

Below is list of companies that can supply all the materials needed to carry out a stone installation.

https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive//grout/primers and silicone sealants

Tile Giant stock Mapei tile adhesives and grouts, they are my favorite to work with and many of the professionals on this site use nothing else. Tile Giant have stores all over the country, below is a list of their stores.

Mapei: Tile Giant Store Finder...

Sealers/cleaners and maintenance products

LTP produce just about any chemical for just about any kind of stone, you can buy what you need from their website below of for Tile Giant

LTP Online
 
OP
R

Rich

Aha! Good point...


Choosing the correct stone tile

It is vital to choose the correct tile for your installation, some stone is not suitable for use on floors and others are not suitable for use in wet areas so it is very important to check before buying the stone. If you are fixing stone to a floor the correct substrate preparation must be carried out. If you are fixing natural Stone to the walls then you must be aware of the max weight that your wall can hold. Check with the supplier and find out what the weight of the stone is per m2 and be sure to incorporate the weight of the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and the grout as well (usually between 4-5kg per m2) below is a list of max holding weights of some common tile surfaces.

Gypsum plaster (finishing plaster) - 20kg/m2
Plasterboard (direct to paper face-no skim) - 32kg/m2
Plywood - around 30kg/m2
Tile backer board - up to 60kg/m2 (check with board manufacturer)
Sand and cement render - unlikely to be exceeded

Approximate weights for natural stone

These are only very rough guidelines, always check with the supplier

Natural stone 7mm thick - 19kg/m2
Natural stone 10mm thick - 27kg/m2
Natural stone 20mm thick - 55kg/m2
 
OP
D

DHTiling

Many things can be achieved with Stone, A lot of Stone installers like to profile the edges.. these being either a square edge finish that is honed to as close as the surface finish or even a bull nose finish like these ones on my jobs..


Smarts job 2010 001.jpg IMG_1448.JPG IMG_1452.JPG IMG_1468.JPG 8690.jpg 8692.jpg 8696.jpg



You will require the correct tools to be able to perform these tasks..

these include a variable speed polisher , a bull nosing profiler and in some case a double bull nose profiler.. and then various grit diamond pads dry/or wet and also various grit paper discs can be used..

images



images




images




images
 
OP
D

DHTiling

Posted by Wetdecs elsewhere on the forum but perfect for this thread.


Working With Stone

As stone has become more popular and specialist stone fixers are few and far between tilers take on a proportion of their work.

Most stone work such as sealing and maintenance can be researched but on the odd occasion tilers come up against practices they are not trained for. One of these practices is the finishing of external corners and edges.
In general corners and edges that tilers come across in the work place can be finished with a metal or plastic profile, on stone this isn’t always the best finish. Natural stone does not combine well with manmade materials and profiles are not made to accommodate stone tile thickness are just a couple of reasons why edges and corners may need some extra skills.
Traditionally where stone tiles meet at an external corner the edges are polished and fixed to produce a quirk , butt-up or masons mitre. Shaping after fixing to a half bull nose, or eased mitre are more recent options. In today’s workplace a half bull nose or eased mitre would be applied to travertine as this stone is soft and easy to shape, with marble or granite a quirk mitre, eased mitre or butt-up would be used. During the cutting of stone chipping of the edges often occurs, combine this with the dangers of
sharp edges and you see why full mitres are to be avoided.
Tile edge polishing
The word “marble” is colloquially used to refer to many stones that are capable of taking a high polish. When you polish something you are replacing scratches with finer scratches to the point where they are no longer visible.A polished or honed stone tile will often have a dull non descript edge which needs to be worked before a quirk mitre can be used.
To polish an edge the following tools would be required:
ØElectric hand grinder up to 2700 rpm
ØAbrasive disc backing pad
ØAbrasive discs at 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 3000 grits
ØBuffing compound
ØFelt wheel
Using a work mate (a piece of inner tube one either side)clamp the tile so you are looking down on the edge to be polished and have a practice with your grits. Only you will see the results of each grit and be able to judge which ones you will or won’t need. Each stone is different so go easy until you have a process giving the finish you require then final polish using the buffing compound and felt disk. Polishing stone is like riding a bike a course can show you but you must educate yourself………..you have to feel it
and work with it………………….then you never forget.
The Quirk Mitre
quirk-mitre.gif

The cutter is set to mitre the tile at 90 degrees. Lay the tile face down on your wet cutter using a pad to prevent scratching.
Draw the cutter towards you until it touches the tile and will cut to the corner. You are not cutting a full mitre so ease the tile away from the blade until it is cutting to 3 or 4mm from the corner, lock the guide.
The tiles are fitted together using a grout or resin filler to match the tiles.
The Masons Mitre
masons-mitre.gif

The masons mitre is created by notching one tile as per the diagram this joint is slightly more difficult as it requires cutting in 2 directions.
The result of the masons mitre will be visually the same as the quirk mitre but is a stronger joint
Butt Up Joint
butt-up.gif

The butt up joint is a simple joint leaving one polished edge visible. The visible edge should be made away from line of sight or internal as it is framed with grout. Resin or grout filler matching the stone can make this a nice clean joint.
The one failing of the butt-up joint is its sharp and sometimes dangerous edge. To avoid this edge the joint can be eased as below.
Eased Corner Joints
the-ease.gif
butted-eased.gif
eased-mitre.gif

By easing a joint you are taking the edge back up to 2.5mm creating a blunt flat edge.
The ease is easiest to work on travertine because of its structure it can’t be polished without filling. Take off the sharp edge with a medium grit before grouting the new edge. When dry sand with a fine grit until smooth. A little colour intensifier will finish the ease nicely.
Half Bullnose
bull.gif

Seen here the half bullnose (isn’t quite) is the rounding off of the external edge letting the stone flow nicely.
This finish works an absolute treat on tumbled marble as you are not working with a polished surface. Rounding corners at window reveals in kitchens is straightforward and adds a touch of class and reflects well on the tiler.
All in all joints and edges in stone are not difficult but do take time to learn. Once you have your grits right then it becomes easy and you add a new skill to your trade. Don’t be put off by silly prices being charged for polishers it’s not about the tool there are low priced hand grinder s to be had and given the little use they get a heavy spend is not required.
 
OP
T

The D

love this thread thanks for the info. As a tiler i am humbled in the presence of such top notch *stone specialists. The lads that have profiling tools are producing a lovely finish unfortunately i do not have one can anybody let me now where to get one.
 
OP
G

Gazzer

love this thread thanks for the info. As a tiler i am humbled in the presence of such top notch *stone specialists. The lads that have profiling tools are producing a lovely finish unfortunately i do not have one can anybody let me now where to get one.

Got mine from Ebay Dean.
 

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