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IMPORTANT CHANGES TO BS 5385-1 WALL AND FLOOR tile

tile Standards | BS 5385​


As part of the five-year review of British Standards and reflecting changes within the tile industry since 2009 – BS 5385 Part 1: 2018 has now been published. One significant change made was to exclude the use of plywood as a background material for the direct fixing of ceramic wall and natural stone tiles.

Tiling Standards

Clause 6.1.2.7 Other sheets and boards (see also 6.2.3.3) now states:
“The use of sheets or boards that are subject to movement from changes in moisture content should be avoided. Plywood and other wood-based sheets or boards should not be used for direct tile”.

A significant uplift in the use of tile backer boards and a wide variation in quality of plywood available on the market has provided a solid case for the removal of plywood from the standards.

David Wilson, UK Head of Technical Services a member of the TTA Technical Committee said: “Previously it was recognised in BS5385 Part 1: 2009 that tile direct to plywood was possible, providing this was restricted to small areas and be “installed in such a way that they provide a [dimensional] stable and rigid background” the quality of plywood for tile purposes has decreased significantly with cheaper imports flooding the market.

“While higher quality external grade plywood is still available – it is significantly more expensive.

“It is important to consider though that that wood is a hygroscopic material which means that its moisture content will change dependent upon any changes in the environmental conditions on site. Therefore, dimensional stability of wood-based boards cannot be assured there is always a risk to installing ceramic or natural stone tiles onto plywood or other wood-based sheets,
Another technical consideration for wall tile is weight restrictions. Just as a side note at this point, if you don't have a clue what any of this is, then consider a tiling course, and research it well before paying any money. Plywood is deemed to have a maximum weight of tile per m² of 30 kg compared to proprietary tile backing boards which generally are capable of supporting heavier weights per m² of tile (As per table 3 of BS 5385-1: 2018).

British Wall and Floor tile Standards BS5385-1​


“A competitive tile backing board market means that prices are more attractive to tile fixers and contractors. This combined with the additional features and benefits of providing background for tile which are dimensional stable and resistant to moisture and thermal movement. “

However, while plywood is not recommended as a background for direct wall tile, it can still be used as a structural board when overlaid with a suitable tile backing board, particularly where installation of mechanical fixings is required e.g. for mesh backed natural stone where it is not possible to remove 75% or of the mesh backing.

Other changes to BS standards.

Previously in internal dry wall areas it was recommended that tile https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ should cover a minimum of 50% coverage spread evenly over the back of the tile. However, driven by necessity, with the increase in the size and types of tiles i.e. larger formats and thin ceramic panels, now available of the market, BS 5385-1: 2018 advises: “Tiles with a surface area of less than 0.1 m², but which weigh more per square meter than 70% of the background’s capacity to carry the weight, should be solidly bedded e.g. the maximum weight of tile that can be supported by Gypsum plaster = 20 kg; whereas 9 mm thick porcelain tiles, which weigh approximately 18 kg/m², weigh more than 70% of 20 kg (14 kg) therefore, they should be solidly bedded regardless of their size”

British tile Standards included within the scope of BS 5385-1: 2018 are large format ceramic tiles, ceramic panels i.e. tiles with a surface area >1m² (any edge length >1200 mm) and thin tiles

i.e. ceramic tiles and panels with a panel thickness of ≤ 5.5 mm. To reflect this, additional changes have also been made in the minimum recommended grout joint width, dependent on the tile/panel size, e.g. the minimum grout widths vary by tile facial area – an example as follows:
  • For tiles with a facial area of less than 0.1m² with no side > 600mm long, a minimum joint width of 2mm is required.
  • Tiles with a facial area 0.1m² to 1m² with no side>1200mm long, a minimum joint width of 3 mm is required.
And
  • Joints between ceramic panels should be increased pro-rata to panel size (e.g. for a 3m long ceramic panels the minimum required joint width between these panels is 5mm.
Not included in the scope of BS 5385-1: 2018 are:
  • Natural Stone Slabs i.e. stone which is more than 12mm thick,
  • Agglomerate stone,
  • Metal, plastic resin, mirror or glass tiles of a similar construction
Note from Admin: We have collated most of the threads regarding tile standards. Having one thread on the subject should help those out seeking advice regarding British Standards in Wall and Floor tile BS 5385
 
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OP
S

Spare Tool

Not acceptable by a long way, and for those that claim leveling clips have no place in tile........!!!
 
OP
O

One Day

..and just to point out that it might actually be WITHIN BS5385 tolerances.
1mm lippage is a crazy amount on a rectified edge and BS5385 should be revised to 0.1mm in my opinion.

I reckon if you actually measure the lips in the photos they are under 1mm (just)

No excuse for such a shocking job, but they may use it as an excuse.
 
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Shouldn't have to use tile clips on those tiles there only 600 x 300 by the looks of them in the pictures, 600 x 300 are the new 6 x 6 it's just very poor quality of work demonstrated by a fixer who excuse, it's been done to BS standards I think this person's definition of BS is standing for Bull rubbish
 
OP
S

Spare Tool

Shouldn't have to use tile clips on those tiles there only 600 x 300 by the looks of them in the pictures, 600 x 300 are the new 6 x 6 it's just very poor quality of work demonstrated by a fixer who excuse, it's been done to BS standards I think this person's definition of BS is standing for Bull rubbish
No not essential to use clips but would have made for a dam sight better job with them...
 

Ash205

TF
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Thank you everyone for your comments,
Just to answer a couple of questions
We had the whole job project managed by the bathroom company whilst We went away on holiday so we didn’t see the issues with the tile until we came back, but they were raised straight away on our return
However because of a discontinued vanity unit and a measuring problem along with a chipped cistern we have had to wait the last 6/7 weeks for the items to become available to able to finish the job and presumed everything would be put right all in one go
The downside is they came this week and fitted everything that was missing, and gave the speech about the tiles again.
Having read the comments my plan now is to give them another couple of weeks to sort the tiles and if I get no joy bring somebody in to do the tiles correctly using their fitting fee (everything else was paid for upfront except fitting)

Again thanks for your comments guys most appreciated
 
OP
D

Dumbo

That action might get you into trouble . Have you created a paper trail . You need to put in writing what you are not happy with and ask them to correct it . They need to given the chance to correct it . I know you complained , but you have to ask them to put it right . You should speak to a solicitor or local citizens advice bureau on how to deal with this .
 
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The statement made by jcr is correct e-mail the company with everything your not happy with & what you want the outcome to be .Also if your able to attach read & receive to the e-mail do so hope this helps & good luck
 

Ash205

TF
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Have been emailing and written several times and to be honest would of been happy for them to finish the job just to get it done and dusted , but the owner when it came to the tile question actually shouted at the wife and told her to get 3 independent tile companies in who would all say it was a good job ,
Have decided to give them till the weekend to respond with their solutions to the tiles , then plan on giving them 2 weeks notice of us going somewhere else to get the job finished , this job was actually started on the 6th December so just want it done now
 
OP
D

Dumbo

Have been emailing and written several times and to be honest would of been happy for them to finish the job just to get it done and dusted , but the owner when it came to the tile question actually shouted at the wife and told her to get 3 independent tile companies in who would all say it was a good job ,
Have decided to give them till the weekend to respond with their solutions to the tiles , then plan on giving them 2 weeks notice of us going somewhere else to get the job finished , this job was actually started on the 6th December so just want it done now
I still think you should take advice as you don't want to end up paying for it twice
 
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Ash get in touch with the TTA they of a fully independent survey at a cost of course they will give you a fully written report of there finding,which if needed can also be used in court should it get that far
 
OP
T

Tile Shop

How dare he shout at your wife for speaking her mind! If it were my wife, she'd make sure he swallowed at least 75% of his teeth!

Sorry but you need to stick to your guns on this one and if they don't back down, then as above, solicitor or CAB. That is not a good job. Simple! There are several issues, and whether or not those lips are in or out of tolerance, they are horrendously visible and shows a complete lack of attention to detail and ruin the whole look of the job. How they couldn't have seen that when laying, I'll never know. Unless the lighting wasn't adequate, to which there is also a guideline in BS5385, part 1 (4.2.2).

You could get 20 tilers to come and look; they will all tell you the job is complete crap!
 
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Chelly

TF
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Sorry posted this accidentally on the general forum.

Hello I am currently in dispute with Wickes bathroom installation as they have fitted my wall tiles and I have cut slivers as the last course where the wall meets the ceiling. They blamed it on an uneven ceiling however I have argued that regardless of the uneven ceiling the last course cuts should have been larger and would have been if the area had been set out and measured correctly. Suggesting that if the first course (at the bath) was cut the last course cut would have been larger and better in appearance. They said that British standards state the the first course at the bath must be a full tile. I cannot find this BS and the only one I can find is one that states cuts should be kept to a minimum and be as large as possible. Who is right here and do you agree this is a poor quality install?
107047
 

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