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IMPORTANT CHANGES TO BS 5385-1 WALL AND FLOOR tile

tile Standards | BS 5385​


As part of the five-year review of British Standards and reflecting changes within the tile industry since 2009 – BS 5385 Part 1: 2018 has now been published. One significant change made was to exclude the use of plywood as a background material for the direct fixing of ceramic wall and natural stone tiles.

Tiling Standards

Clause 6.1.2.7 Other sheets and boards (see also 6.2.3.3) now states:
“The use of sheets or boards that are subject to movement from changes in moisture content should be avoided. Plywood and other wood-based sheets or boards should not be used for direct tile”.

A significant uplift in the use of tile backer boards and a wide variation in quality of plywood available on the market has provided a solid case for the removal of plywood from the standards.

David Wilson, UK Head of Technical Services a member of the TTA Technical Committee said: “Previously it was recognised in BS5385 Part 1: 2009 that tile direct to plywood was possible, providing this was restricted to small areas and be “installed in such a way that they provide a [dimensional] stable and rigid background” the quality of plywood for tile purposes has decreased significantly with cheaper imports flooding the market.

“While higher quality external grade plywood is still available – it is significantly more expensive.

“It is important to consider though that that wood is a hygroscopic material which means that its moisture content will change dependent upon any changes in the environmental conditions on site. Therefore, dimensional stability of wood-based boards cannot be assured there is always a risk to installing ceramic or natural stone tiles onto plywood or other wood-based sheets,
Another technical consideration for wall tile is weight restrictions. Just as a side note at this point, if you don't have a clue what any of this is, then consider a tiling course, and research it well before paying any money. Plywood is deemed to have a maximum weight of tile per m² of 30 kg compared to proprietary tile backing boards which generally are capable of supporting heavier weights per m² of tile (As per table 3 of BS 5385-1: 2018).

British Wall and Floor tile Standards BS5385-1​


“A competitive tile backing board market means that prices are more attractive to tile fixers and contractors. This combined with the additional features and benefits of providing background for tile which are dimensional stable and resistant to moisture and thermal movement. “

However, while plywood is not recommended as a background for direct wall tile, it can still be used as a structural board when overlaid with a suitable tile backing board, particularly where installation of mechanical fixings is required e.g. for mesh backed natural stone where it is not possible to remove 75% or of the mesh backing.

Other changes to BS standards.

Previously in internal dry wall areas it was recommended that tile https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ should cover a minimum of 50% coverage spread evenly over the back of the tile. However, driven by necessity, with the increase in the size and types of tiles i.e. larger formats and thin ceramic panels, now available of the market, BS 5385-1: 2018 advises: “Tiles with a surface area of less than 0.1 m², but which weigh more per square meter than 70% of the background’s capacity to carry the weight, should be solidly bedded e.g. the maximum weight of tile that can be supported by Gypsum plaster = 20 kg; whereas 9 mm thick porcelain tiles, which weigh approximately 18 kg/m², weigh more than 70% of 20 kg (14 kg) therefore, they should be solidly bedded regardless of their size”

British tile Standards included within the scope of BS 5385-1: 2018 are large format ceramic tiles, ceramic panels i.e. tiles with a surface area >1m² (any edge length >1200 mm) and thin tiles

i.e. ceramic tiles and panels with a panel thickness of ≤ 5.5 mm. To reflect this, additional changes have also been made in the minimum recommended grout joint width, dependent on the tile/panel size, e.g. the minimum grout widths vary by tile facial area – an example as follows:
  • For tiles with a facial area of less than 0.1m² with no side > 600mm long, a minimum joint width of 2mm is required.
  • Tiles with a facial area 0.1m² to 1m² with no side>1200mm long, a minimum joint width of 3 mm is required.
And
  • Joints between ceramic panels should be increased pro-rata to panel size (e.g. for a 3m long ceramic panels the minimum required joint width between these panels is 5mm.
Not included in the scope of BS 5385-1: 2018 are:
  • Natural Stone Slabs i.e. stone which is more than 12mm thick,
  • Agglomerate stone,
  • Metal, plastic resin, mirror or glass tiles of a similar construction
Note from Admin: We have collated most of the threads regarding tile standards. Having one thread on the subject should help those out seeking advice regarding British Standards in Wall and Floor tile BS 5385
 
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Chelly

TF
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Regardless of the fact that the ceiling may be out of level, if you tried that set out on site, you’d be lucky not to be swinging from the scaffold, but I suppose more likely sent off site never to return or be paid.
Good practice is to have at least one third of a tile as a cut, some QS want larger, but a third is generally acceptable.
Last time I was on site anyway. :)

And as far as a full tile off the bath goes, if we did that, 90% of our work would be out of level.
Haha Thanks @3_fall
 
OP
B

Bill

No you’re not Tom, do you refuse to tile a room then if the ceiling isn’t level? :p Haha
No but 99% of the tilers on here keep banging on about how things are done .... blah blah blah .....so why not go ape about the ceiling like you would do if the walls were not plumb and flat.

A little bit hypocritical methinks, sometimes.
 
OP
S

Spare Tool

At what point does the customer inform the plasterer it must be level not 20mm out over 3 metres oh and they've picked metros...
Plasterer turns up JUST to skim ceiling as booked, just as he's mixed a bucket of skim customer informs him it must be level, plasterer then rings tiler to drop everything and immediatley rush over to site FOC, pings a datum round the room and set ceiling up, by this time plasterers skims gone off and ruined his gorilla tub... Plasterer shouts and screams and walks off job..
Next available plasterer that can get there throws all the schedules out and tilers and plumbers are not now available, so plasterer says "I've done a bit of tile and plumbing" he ends up tile it and making a right mess of fixing and the set out, connects shower up and floods the house, and customer then ends back up on here complaining about the job..full circle..
You know the script in the real world Tom, it won't happen..
Ps. No offense @widler
 
OP
O

One Day

I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tile services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
 

Chelly

TF
Reaction score
10
I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tile services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
You would think so wouldn’t you! Unfortunately they don’t seem to be very chatty:p
 
OP
M

MTiler

Have you thought about getting a report from The Tile Association done? Not sure of the cost off hand.
 
OP
T

Tile Shop

Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
 
OP
D

Dumbo

Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
 

Chelly

TF
Reaction score
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Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
Unfortunately the fitter has washed his hands of it. What happens next is remedial fitters come to complete snags, arranged by Wickes customer services. As I listed a number of issues including tiles and items that have not yet been completed then it gets escalated to customer relations who is the go between. They are liaising with the installation manager who is the one who said when he came to inspect that it is British Standard to start with full tile at bath and that he believes that this is acceptable work. He doesn’t respond to their emails and just doesn’t seem to care. If they phone me I follow up with an email. Wickes guarantee all of the work so my beef is with them.
 

Boggs

TF
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Esteemed
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“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.
 

Chelly

TF
Reaction score
10
Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong :p , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!
 

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