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Discuss Tiling dispute with Wickes Tile Installation Service in the Tiling Forum | Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com

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jcrtiling

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Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
 

Chelly

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Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
Unfortunately the fitter has washed his hands of it. What happens next is remedial fitters come to complete snags, arranged by Wickes customer services. As I listed a number of issues including tiles and items that have not yet been completed then it gets escalated to customer relations who is the go between. They are liaising with the installation manager who is the one who said when he came to inspect that it is British Standard to start with full tile at bath and that he believes that this is acceptable work. He doesn’t respond to their emails and just doesn’t seem to care. If they phone me I follow up with an email. Wickes guarantee all of the work so my beef is with them.
 

Boggs

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“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.
 

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong :p , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!
 

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“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.
You would think, however they all think he has done a great job
 

antonio

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Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong :p , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!
sorry, i was wrong
 

antonio

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
should, could, where possible.......
seems very vague
very different from uni standards.
they must be is better than they should.
or is the translator wrong?
 

Balloo

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I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.
Absolutely nonsense and misinformation BS is not a about that , its only a guideline for standard practice .
 

Balloo

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
 

hmtiling

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
I certainly wouldn't let it slide if it was my house. Are you saying you would?
 

Paul C.

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
"Caught out".... He wouldn't have been if he'd planned it correctly instead of being lazy and assuming a full tile from a convenient point would be ok. Setting out and good preparation is a tilers job, part of the service. Either the ceiling could have been sorted, tiles laid out to suit a bigger cut and less of an eye-sore, or have a discussion with the customer how to proceed, stick it in their court... Not wing it and say "sorry, best I could do".

So taking a look at myself as you asked and yes, I would still dispute. It looks arse. Aside from practicality, aesthetics is a huge part of why tiles are used. And that is certainly not aesthetically pleasing to me.
 
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I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to make sure they're happy before I start fixing
 

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I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to Makel sure they're happy before I start fixing

Fully agree Tim. I find it the most interesting / stressful part. Especially with small tiles. Take your time. Check and re check and it works out fine. Also. There is usually a compromise somewhere. As you say check with client. Get them to sign off on all final decisions
 

timeless john

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Ask the client how to set the room out!
That’s why they are paying you - to do a professional job.
Clients away on holiday, that’s okay I’ll send him a photo of how it’s going to look - he’s going to be really confident in your ability.
What’s been done is sh*te and these chancers do our trade no favours.
 

acaciaguy

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I agree John. I advise clients on what I wil do and look best. However they are the ones that have to look at it forever. If they are happy i am

To avoid any conflation of posts. I agree John the work op posted is rubbish
 
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I would say that almost all of my bathroom jobs have a cut or trimmed tile at the bath ( or shower tray)to avoid that awful finish at ceiling level or anywhere else.
 

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Hi all, it’s been a while but the dispute is still ongoing. They are now saying that they had to start with a full tile at the bath due to metro tile choice, is this correct? See their reply
We are of the belief that based on the tile selection being bevelled edged, that starting with a cut above the bath, would lead to a greater risk of water ingress as well as less aesthetically pleasing due to the silicone line not being consistent.
 

hmtiling

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Hi all, it’s been a while but the dispute is still ongoing. They are now saying that they had to start with a full tile at the bath due to metro tile choice, is this correct? See their reply
We are of the belief that based on the tile selection being bevelled edged, that starting with a cut above the bath, would lead to a greater risk of water ingress as well as less aesthetically pleasing due to the silicone line not being consistent.
Nonsense
 

timeless john

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Ask the client how to set the room out!
That’s why they are paying you - to do a professional job.
Clients away on holiday, that’s okay I’ll send him a photo of how it’s going to look - he’s going to be really confident in your ability.
What’s been done is sh*te and these chancers do our trade no favours.
Must have been on song that night - apologies!
 

Chelly

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Post automatically merged:

Thought so 108050

Regarding the vertical corner joints, they say.

Wickes Way of Working stipulates that grout is to be applied to all vertical joints as well as joints between wall and floor tiles etc.

Do you also know what size these corner joints should be as some areas are as small as 1 - 2mm?
 

hmtiling

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Post automatically merged:

Thought so View attachment 108050

Regarding the vertical corner joints, they say.

Wickes Way of Working stipulates that grout is to be applied to all vertical joints as well as joints between wall and floor tiles etc.

Do you also know what size these corner joints should be as some areas are as small as 1 - 2mm?
They're wrong(lying) again. All transitions between walls and floors should be siliconed as per adhesive manufacturer instructions. Find out what adhesive and grout they used and you could get that in writing from them
 

RayTheTiler

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you have a ceiling thats on the wonk re board ceiling and skim the tiling looks fine except the slither cut.
alternatively knock the whole house down and get them to get the joists level.:)
ps on my 6th can of Guinness may not be thinking straight but i feel great.
but im leveller than that ceiling lol
 

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I tiled 6 full bathrooms 195mt in a house for a famous mr nesbit . For the golf open .
Total nightmare of a job herringbone on two of them o_O
 

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No update as to what happened. so i'll throw in...Its almost definitely not British Standard. I work at the building site end of things, and Site managers love to show off their 'knowledge' of BS/NHBC standards. Cutting into the bath has NEVER been an issue. Having said that, they look like the 'metro' type tiles there, and cutting in wouldn't have looked good. That rip looks to be about 10mm at the widest, as Andystiletiling said, your tiler should have changed spacers to absorb it, it would be unnoticeable. Bit late now, but its my opinion dark grouts and white glazed tiles is never a good idea, it just highlights any imperfections, (and those small tiles are always a bit 'sizey') the bevel in the tiles would make it look just as good with white grout. :)
 

Chelly

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Thanks all for your help and the information you have provided me. Received the 1st positive email yesterday from them saying “you have clearly done your research”, offering a refund for the tiling or for the work to be redone.

I notice that most of you hate installing metro tiles, why are they so bad? They responded.....”The specific tiles you have chosen are notoriously problematic and whilst we are happy to reinstall replacements if this is what you decide, we would suggest an alternative tile is chosen to ensure the finish is completed in line with the standards you have quoted and to enable us to complete your bathroom to meet both yours and our expectations”
But I like metro tiles?! Would you advise against also? Not sure I trust them to redo the work, so thinking of getting a quote from a TTA approved tiler (Swansea area), if you know anyone willing to take on my work?
 

jcrtiling

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I don't like metros but that is a personal thing many tilers and I mean proper tilers , check their references are capable of producing quality work with metros,.
If you want a tta tiler log on to the tta website I'm sure you will find someone in your area .
Tiles.org.uk
 
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Andy Allen

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Any tiler worth there salt should be able to use metros and produce a high standard.
The reason tilers don't like them is because there time consuming, being a small tile, going around and inside windows take forever, and there difficult to grout because of the bevelle.
Personally, I don't mind them, as I tile alot of kitchens, and can't remember the last time I did one that wasn't metros...
 

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