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Discuss Tiling dispute with Wickes Tile Installation Service in the Tiling Forum | Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com

Chelly

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Regardless of the fact that the ceiling may be out of level, if you tried that set out on site, you’d be lucky not to be swinging from the scaffold, but I suppose more likely sent off site never to return or be paid.
Good practice is to have at least one third of a tile as a cut, some QS want larger, but a third is generally acceptable.
Last time I was on site anyway. :)

And as far as a full tile off the bath goes, if we did that, 90% of our work would be out of level.
Haha Thanks @3_fall
 

Tom Astley

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No you’re not Tom, do you refuse to tile a room then if the ceiling isn’t level? :p Haha
No but 99% of the tilers on here keep banging on about how things are done .... blah blah blah .....so why not go ape about the ceiling like you would do if the walls were not plumb and flat.

A little bit hypocritical methinks, sometimes.
 
S

Spare Tool

At what point does the customer inform the plasterer it must be level not 20mm out over 3 metres oh and they've picked metros...
Plasterer turns up JUST to skim ceiling as booked, just as he's mixed a bucket of skim customer informs him it must be level, plasterer then rings tiler to drop everything and immediatley rush over to site FOC, pings a datum round the room and set ceiling up, by this time plasterers skims gone off and ruined his gorilla tub... Plasterer shouts and screams and walks off job..
Next available plasterer that can get there throws all the schedules out and tilers and plumbers are not now available, so plasterer says "I've done a bit of tiling and plumbing" he ends up tiling it and making a right mess of fixing and the set out, connects shower up and floods the house, and customer then ends back up on here complaining about the job..full circle..
You know the script in the real world Tom, it won't happen..
Ps. No offense @widler
 
O

One Day

I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tiling services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
 

Chelly

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I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tiling services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
You would think so wouldn’t you! Unfortunately they don’t seem to be very chatty:p
 

Paul C.

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
 

Chelly

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Have you thought about getting a report from The Tile Association done? Not sure of the cost off hand.
I looked at this last night, think it is about £800 for a report but I will give them a ring, seems pricey but maybe a last resort
 

jcrtiling

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Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
 

Chelly

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Who are you feeling with is it the fitter or the contracts manager . Are you speaking to him or communicating by email, are you copying in the branch manager ,
Unfortunately the fitter has washed his hands of it. What happens next is remedial fitters come to complete snags, arranged by Wickes customer services. As I listed a number of issues including tiles and items that have not yet been completed then it gets escalated to customer relations who is the go between. They are liaising with the installation manager who is the one who said when he came to inspect that it is British Standard to start with full tile at bath and that he believes that this is acceptable work. He doesn’t respond to their emails and just doesn’t seem to care. If they phone me I follow up with an email. Wickes guarantee all of the work so my beef is with them.
 

Boggs

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“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.
 

Chelly

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong :p , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!
 

Chelly

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“Fitter’s washes his hands of it”
How can he, surely he is the one responsible as he was the one who fitted it.
You would think, however they all think he has done a great job
 

antonio

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Thank you so much Paul, and the party is still going strong :p , will definitely be sending this information to them. You have all be such a great help thank you!
sorry, i was wrong
 

antonio

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
should, could, where possible.......
seems very vague
very different from uni standards.
they must be is better than they should.
or is the translator wrong?
 

Balloo

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I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.
Absolutely nonsense and misinformation BS is not a about that , its only a guideline for standard practice .
 

Balloo

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
 

hmtiling

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
I certainly wouldn't let it slide if it was my house. Are you saying you would?
 

Paul C.

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I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
"Caught out".... He wouldn't have been if he'd planned it correctly instead of being lazy and assuming a full tile from a convenient point would be ok. Setting out and good preparation is a tilers job, part of the service. Either the ceiling could have been sorted, tiles laid out to suit a bigger cut and less of an eye-sore, or have a discussion with the customer how to proceed, stick it in their court... Not wing it and say "sorry, best I could do".

So taking a look at myself as you asked and yes, I would still dispute. It looks arse. Aside from practicality, aesthetics is a huge part of why tiles are used. And that is certainly not aesthetically pleasing to me.
 
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I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to make sure they're happy before I start fixing
 

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