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Discuss Tiling dispute with Wickes Tile Installation Service in the Tiling Forum | Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com

Chelly

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Sorry posted this accidentally on the general forum.

Hello I am currently in dispute with Wickes bathroom installation as they have fitted my wall tiles and I have cut slivers as the last course where the wall meets the ceiling. They blamed it on an uneven ceiling however I have argued that regardless of the uneven ceiling the last course cuts should have been larger and would have been if the area had been set out and measured correctly. Suggesting that if the first course (at the bath) was cut the last course cut would have been larger and better in appearance. They said that British standards state the the first course at the bath must be a full tile. I cannot find this BS and the only one I can find is one that states cuts should be kept to a minimum and be as large as possible. Who is right here and do you agree this is a poor quality install?107047
 

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It's not great to be honest, but it's serviceable and fit for purpose.

Whilst it could look better, legally there's probably not a great deal you can do about it. As all the law will look at is if the install has been done and is fit for purpose.

It's unfortunate that a contrasting grout has been chosen as this highlights the problem further.

If it bothers you that much I'd be inclined to fit a small cove or similar to the ceiling to disguise the problem.
 

hmtiling

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I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.
 

Chelly

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Thanks for your honesty, is it law to start with a full tile as they have stated?
 

Chelly

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I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.
Thanks @hmtiling that fills me with hope!
 

hmtiling

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Thanks for your honesty, is it law to start with a full tile as they have stated?
British standards aren't regulations but guidelines. It is in those guidelines to waterproof wet areas though and I'd wager they haven't. Throw that back at them. The threat of posting all over social media usually works with big firms too. Good luck
 

Chelly

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British standards aren't regulations but guidelines. It is in those guidelines to waterproof wet areas though and I'd wager they haven't. Throw that back at them. The threat of posting all over social media usually works with big firms too. Good luck
Thanks, I was tempted to post on social media but was worried it may harm my case :)
 

Boggs

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“BS states full tile off bath”...

Best I go back and re-tile 50% of jobs I have ever completed then!
 

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Unfortunately setting out issue...Not really much can be done other than add a small cove detail
Or remove top course and slither/ introduce a listello border then larger cut... or .... rip out and start again
The darker grout does emphasise it
Have definitely seen worse
 

jcrtiling

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As @hmtiling
Said ask them if they have waterproofed the walls before tiling as that is in British standards also as @Boggs
Said I have tiled an awful lot of bathrooms where I haven't tiled a whole tile of the bath , and yes do not get confused as to what british standards are they are a code of good practice and not even building regs .
 

jcrtiling

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And yes they should of siliconed the corner where the tiles meet also have they siliconed next to the bath
 

Chelly

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And yes they should of siliconed the corner where the tiles meet also have they siliconed next to the bath
They have white siliconed the tile/ bath join however it seems to be peeling away a little. There is translucent silicone in the corners however one side seems to be yellowing?
 

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They have white siliconed the tile/ bath join however it seems to be peeling away a little. There is translucent silicone in the corners however one side seems to be yellowing?
It's no good siliconing over grout in the corners, this joint is meant to be free of grout and adhesive, this is a movement joint , British standards therefore they should know this (hint of sarcasm ) . I would of done that in a colour match silicone but that would be more expensive that generic cheapo silicone .
 

Chelly

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It's no good siliconing over grout in the corners, this joint is meant to be free of grout and adhesive, this is a movement joint , British standards therefore they should know this (hint of sarcasm ) . I would of done that in a colour match silicone but that would be more expensive that generic cheapo silicone .
Cheers this for the info this is a great help!
 
S

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Think theyre feeding you some real BS tbh.. That's not been set out, they've just trusted to luck, a different size spacer, either changing from 2 to 3mm or vice versa could have made all the difference with your ceiling cut..
 

MissTiler

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Depending on how the room sets out determins whether you have full tiles on the bath or not. You usually dont because baths are rarely set level lol. Nobody bothered setting out that room and theyve been found out. Theyre talking bollards
 

Chelly

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Think theyre feeding you some real BS tbh.. That's not been set out, they've just trusted to luck, a different size spacer, either changing from 2 to 3mm or vice versa could have made all the difference with your ceiling cut..
Thank you Andy that is one thing I didn’t think of.
 

Chelly

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Depending on how the room sets out determins whether you have full tiles on the bath or not. You usually dont because baths are rarely set level lol. Nobody bothered setting out that room and theyve been found out. Theyre talking bollards
Yes they have! Just need to get them (wickes) to listen now :)
 

Chelly

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Am I the only one who thinks the ceiling should be level? Why spend all that money and have a poor finish?
I did have the ceiling walls skimmed and wasn’t aware that it wasn’t level until that was another excuse given by the installer. I did ask why he didn’t tell me at time of skimming he said he didn’t know. If I had known I would have rectified that. Ignorance on my part.
 

Chelly

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The ceiling is out by 20mm...... It will always show on 200x100 tiles
I understand there would have been a 20mm graduation, however if the tile was larger it would not have been so noticeable. Instead you have sliver cuts?
 

Chelly

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It will show but won't poke you in the eyes as it does now
What I mean is, still using the same size tile as I have, I understand that I would have had a 20mm graduation but if he had set out probably the final tile would have been a larger cut so not do noticeable?
 
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There is possibly a chance they measured up on the shower wall only and deemed the 20mm or so cut acceptable but had no idea the ceiling was so out until it was too late when it got to another wall. not saying it's acceptable just an idea as to how it happened to them

As suggested you could get a coving up or possibly a big white silicone line to at least cover that cut that is purely grout as it could take your eye away from that and make it look more like just a grout line
 
3_fall

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Regardless of the fact that the ceiling may be out of level, if you tried that set out on site, you’d be lucky not to be swinging from the scaffold, but I suppose more likely sent off site never to return or be paid.
Good practice is to have at least one third of a tile as a cut, some QS want larger, but a third is generally acceptable.
Last time I was on site anyway. :)

And as far as a full tile off the bath goes, if we did that, 90% of our work would be out of level.
 
3_fall

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Am I the only one who thinks the ceiling should be level? Why spend all that money and have a poor finish?
No you’re not Tom, do you refuse to tile a room then if the ceiling isn’t level? :p Haha
 

Chelly

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Regardless of the fact that the ceiling may be out of level, if you tried that set out on site, you’d be lucky not to be swinging from the scaffold, but I suppose more likely sent off site never to return or be paid.
Good practice is to have at least one third of a tile as a cut, some QS want larger, but a third is generally acceptable.
Last time I was on site anyway. :)

And as far as a full tile off the bath goes, if we did that, 90% of our work would be out of level.
Haha Thanks @3_fall
 

Tom Astley

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No you’re not Tom, do you refuse to tile a room then if the ceiling isn’t level? :p Haha
No but 99% of the tilers on here keep banging on about how things are done .... blah blah blah .....so why not go ape about the ceiling like you would do if the walls were not plumb and flat.

A little bit hypocritical methinks, sometimes.
 
S

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At what point does the customer inform the plasterer it must be level not 20mm out over 3 metres oh and they've picked metros...
Plasterer turns up JUST to skim ceiling as booked, just as he's mixed a bucket of skim customer informs him it must be level, plasterer then rings tiler to drop everything and immediatley rush over to site FOC, pings a datum round the room and set ceiling up, by this time plasterers skims gone off and ruined his gorilla tub... Plasterer shouts and screams and walks off job..
Next available plasterer that can get there throws all the schedules out and tilers and plumbers are not now available, so plasterer says "I've done a bit of tiling and plumbing" he ends up tiling it and making a right mess of fixing and the set out, connects shower up and floods the house, and customer then ends back up on here complaining about the job..full circle..
You know the script in the real world Tom, it won't happen..
Ps. No offense @widler
 
O

One Day

I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tiling services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
 

Chelly

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I think it's a shame that someone uses a nationwide firm to do some work which wouldn't be cheap and ends up with a below par job.
We know better and have hindsight but I think as a customer you kind of expect wickes to be offering more than Joe blogs tiling services from the yellow pages.
Absolute rubbish from wickes and their excuses are as ill-thought out as the set out.
I'd love to have a chat with whoever is in charge...
You would think so wouldn’t you! Unfortunately they don’t seem to be very chatty:p
 

Paul C.

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Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:

BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided
and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible

d) arranged in the least prominent locations

Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.

Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
 

Chelly

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Have you thought about getting a report from The Tile Association done? Not sure of the cost off hand.
I looked at this last night, think it is about £800 for a report but I will give them a ring, seems pricey but maybe a last resort
 

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