Problematic Anhyrdrite floor! - Tile Advice

[Ajax123]

How do you know that Alan , did you speak to Dave ?

If it was installed 8weeks ago it will be ours because we supply lafarge in the northeast. We'll be having an official product launch after Christmas. We have been supplying them for some months since tat area decided to move away from gyvlon binder over to Francis Flower who i now work for. Doubt you will notice any difference on the ground. Lafarge themselves have also dropped the "Gyvlon" name and now call it Agila Screed A .... I guess the Gyvlon name will stick for a while ... It was quite a strong brand after all.... I will find out if I am able to publish our data sheets on here for you ....

 

[Ajax123]

Francis Flower is this you now ajax ? what is your position there then mate ?

Yep thats me mate. I am technical and specifications manager doing pretty much the same job as I was before just for a different company. Started 4weeks ago now.....

try this link though .... The website is built

http://www.francisflower.com/

 

[DHTiling]

If it was installed 8weeks ago it will be ours because we supply lafarge in the northeast. We'll be having an official product launch after Christmas. We have been supplying them for some months since tat area decided to move away from gyvlon binder over to Francis Flower who i now work for. Doubt you will notice any difference on the ground. Lafarge themselves have also dropped the "Gyvlon" name and now call it Agila Screed A .... I guess the Gyvlon name will stick for a while ... It was quite a strong brand after all.... I will find out if I am able to publish our data sheets on here for you ....

Chers Alan. Us it same screeners.

 

[Ajax123]

dave i agree with much of what you are saying. most of the 18 jobs i have done on these screeds have been forced dried and heating on for three weeks and i have not had a failure yet.
but and it is a big but , you do not mention that there has been a proper test by either you or the contractor.of course everything is fine until it is not!!this is key
but i do know of a problem right now whereby the same force drying has been carried out and the floor has failed. the same careful priming etc had s been carried out .this is now a very serious situation and i am afraid that to simply state that by force drying with no tests is suffice because no problems before does not work in case of law.

Does that not say an awful lot.... Clearly the other job that you know about is different n some way... I presume it is nt one of your own jobs

 

[Ajax123]

sorry had to start again for fear of losing post.
getting back, there are many instances of a bad product being brought to market and not succeeding.
why not because people did not like it!!
it is ridiculous to tell us that anhydrite is here to stay if we like it or not.
it seems to me there has been some very good sales pitch and patter to convince the average contractor that he is gaining by having one of these screeds.
I can say for myself only that i have counted 18 anhydrite screeds that i have stone and porcelain on to date.
without exception there is not as single contractor that used this screed that has done so again.
this is not because my tiles have failed but simply because beyond the obvious time saving of maybe doing 500 mts in a day in a big house top and ground. the waiting time and prep work they have to do is not worth the aggro. full stop.
perhaps if these screeds were laid in a professional manner as assumedly they are in germany/france then we might profit from an amazing level screed /latence problem sorted by screed company and we could all carry on as normal.
but this is certainly not the case here .

How long do they need to be in the market in order to be considered a permanent fixture??

 

[The D]

How long do they need to be in the market in order to be considered a permanent fixture??

PVA has been around for a long time and is still used in the building industry BUT it is not suitable when it come to tiling.

 

[jonnyc]

Does that not say an awful lot.... Clearly the other job that you know about is different n some way... I presume it is nt one of your own jobs

alan . yes the job is not mine but i know all about it. the point i was making was that if there does become a problem and floor has not been testes properly as you yourself advise us then the tiler wont have a leg to stand on will he?
I have done what dave says he does untilcouple of years ago and thankfully i was ok.

 

[Ajax123]

PVA has been around for a long time and is still used in the building industry BUT it is not suitable when it come to tiling.

Pva has been about since its discovery in 1912....
gypsum based floors have been found in Ancient Rome .... These were often mosaic tiled of course......

 

[bugs183]

Same circular argument here...
this is why i've given up, you ask questions and get the same standard 'ideal' installation guides, which simply are not applicable to the real world.
No one is regulating the screeders, the adhesives simply aren't working well enough and it's us tilers that Will be held responcible.
If you tile it it's all down to you, no one else will back you.
These screeds are just not worth it and EVERY builder i know has gone vack to cement screeds as they create so much hassle.

 

[jonnyc]

alan. if you get a chance could you post why these screeds are so much better or fast track than normal ones.
its true they are quick to lay but unless they can commission heating and force dry as soon as recommended then there is no saving in time that i can see at all.
As i posted yesterday not one of the contractors who have had these screeds laid on which i have laid tiles have gone back for more of same.
They all tried it because they thought it would same time and hassle but it does not seem to work that way.
i think you are doing a great job helping educate tilers about how we should approach these screeds.
few years ago i was certainly not getting this type of information from screed companies.
but in my eyes it still does not make them any better option than sand/cement fibres .
in addition there are these screed accelarators now which dont cost that much and most of the contractors i work for on new builds use this method now.

 

[Ajax123]

alan. if you get a chance could you post why these screeds are so much better or fast track than normal ones.
its true they are quick to lay but unless they can commission heating and force dry as soon as recommended then there is no saving in time that i can see at all.
As i posted yesterday not one of the contractors who have had these screeds laid on which i have laid tiles have gone back for more of same.
They all tried it because they thought it would same time and hassle but it does not seem to work that way.
i think you are doing a great job helping educate tilers about how we should approach these screeds.
few years ago i was certainly not getting this type of information from screed companies.
but in my eyes it still does not make them any better option than sand/cement fibres .
in addition there are these screed accelarators now which dont cost that much and most of the contractors i work for on new builds use this method now.

I shall take up your challenge when I have time later on jonnyc.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

Hi Guys...just an update on the actual job that started this thread. I carried out a moisture check using a hygro box that was leant to me by a vinyl floor fitter who tests before doing his work. I left it on the floor for 3 days and checked it this morning...it came up with a reading of 90% RH. The test the joiner did prior to laying an oak floor cqame back at 70% RH...4 weeks ago!! Either the readings are wrong or the house has a plumbing problem. All the travertine is still solid and the heating under those areas is still off...I assume that the moisture...if any will be able to get out through the travertine even with the floor primed with acrylic. I took up a small cut of travertine today to see how well it was stuck and it came up after a couple of good chisel strikes...with about 5mm of the screed attached to it...surely thats a good sign and agiain IMO points to the customer cranking up the UFH.

 

[Ajax123]

Chers Alan. Us it same screeners.

If that means is it the same screeders then yes... Otherwise please translate ;p

 

[DHTiling]

If that means is it the same screeders then yes... Otherwise please translate ;p

LOL.. Iphone auto correct ..

I meant lafarge using the same screeders as before , but i know the answer now anyway..

 

[Master]

Hi, the travertine is more hygroscopic than porcelain