Metal/glass mosaic advice and opinions for first timer - Tile Advice

[seneca]

Hello,
Never attempted a mosaic before, so thought I'd seek some advice. Only having used mosaic in the regular tile format (same as tiles, but patterned) around the house, I fancy a go at a "proper" mosaic stripe and column in the bathroom. I've really gone in at the deep end with my first attempt! The metal bricks are not capped tile pieces, but actual solid aluminum section that have been polished. Here's what a sample looks like:

What I planned to do was create an empty space/strip of 10cm between the regular tiles (400X150 stacked white gloss 10mm thick) and edge with metal trim. Once tiling is complete, then fix the mosaic (8mm thick) into the space.
I need to make list of things I'll need (adhesive, grout etc) in order to get the best results I can (for a novice!) I thought I could use a metal cutting blade in a grinder to cut any sections, but unsure about glass, so trying to avoid cuts.
As I'll be doing it myself I don't mind spending a bit extra on materials if I get a better result and make the job a bit easier. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

 

[jobdone]

You could put them in vertical and only have to cut the top and bottom in.

 

[seneca]

I want them so the brick pattern is horizontal in the strip running through the main tiles. That should not require cutting, as each mosaic sheet has 18 lines down. I intend to cut the sheet so there will be three strips of 6 bricks high. If I rotate each strip by 180, then they will lock into row.... if that makes sense. There will be a vertical column behind the shower and taps that I will also have to cut at the edges, but I hope I can use the half cut pieces to fill in the other side and make a sheet that is square. Stack those up in a column, so the vertical strip has a brick pattern that runs sideways, but no half brick ends! All in my head at the moment (hoping it works, or I'm in trouble. The pattern should, it's the fixing that will be a headache!)

 

[Italy]

expert here , is @MissTiler

 

[MTiler]

With them being a brick bond pattern there will always be cuts. You'll need a different blade for metal and glass so you'll have to seperate one from the other. A good cutter with a mosaic mat will snap the glass mosaics such as a Montolit.
For grout you can use Mapei Keracolour SF, a super fine grout suitable for glass and metal.
The glass tiles have a backing on them to give them colour so you'll need to use a suitable adhesive such as Mapei Keraflex Maxi in white.
Usually therell be a tech sheet for the mosaics on the manufacturers/suppliers website check that first.

 

[seneca]

Thanks for the reply MissTiler and everyone. Gave the metal a go with the grinder and it cut through the aluminium profile bricks pretty easily. Only difficulty was holding a sheet firmly whilst I cut and aslo smoothing the cut edges. Any ideas? I had thought maybe getting a metal cutting disc for my dremmel, as it would be more precise and I could cut with one hand and hold the sheet with the other. Don't fancy trying that with a grinder!
Regarding adhesives and grouts: I can get some BAL white star ready mix for free from a friend who has a couple of tubs left over from his own house renovation. I understand ready mix isn't as good as the wet mix, but seeing as I'll be only doing small sections a few hours a night, after work, I thought it may be better for my situation. Read somewhere that the grout needs to be as fine as possible, so it doesn't scratch the metal surface. Apparently that is usually only available in white, but that's fine, as I planned on white anyway and it would be handy if using white adhesive, as some will no doubt come through.
As the thickness of tile and mosaic is only 2mm, I thought some mosaic mesh should help make up the difference. What I planned to do was cut most of the mosaic tiles into the strips I need and get some self adhesive mesh. Then I could pre-prepare all the strips and have them rigid and straight to begin with. Then in the space I'll leave between the tiles, I will fit these strips afterwards. Almost as if slotting a tile into the empty tile space, one at a time. One wall each evening, so I can slowly check all the levels are right. Does this sound ok? Need a good quality, reliable mesh that's rigid and self adhesive. Anyone used the Homelux one before
Homelux Mosaic Mat / Mesh Backing Sheet (300 x 300 x 1.4mm) £1.19 in stock - next day UK delivery plus Tile Cutters and Tiling Tools - http://www.tradetiler.com/homelux-mosaic-mat-mesh-backing-sheet-300-x-300-x-1-4mm.html
Thanks

 

[MTiler]

Thanks for the reply MissTiler and everyone. Gave the metal a go with the grinder and it cut through the aluminium profile bricks pretty easily. Only difficulty was holding a sheet firmly whilst I cut and aslo smoothing the cut edges. Any ideas? I had thought maybe getting a metal cutting disc for my dremmel, as it would be more precise and I could cut with one hand and hold the sheet with the other. Don't fancy trying that with a grinder!
Regarding adhesives and grouts: I can get some BAL white star ready mix for free from a friend who has a couple of tubs left over from his own house renovation. I understand ready mix isn't as good as the wet mix, but seeing as I'll be only doing small sections a few hours a night, after work, I thought it may be better for my situation. Read somewhere that the grout needs to be as fine as possible, so it doesn't scratch the metal surface. Apparently that is usually only available in white, but that's fine, as I planned on white anyway and it would be handy if using white adhesive, as some will no doubt come through.
As the thickness of tile and mosaic is only 2mm, I thought some mosaic mesh should help make up the difference. What I planned to do was cut most of the mosaic tiles into the strips I need and get some self adhesive mesh. Then I could pre-prepare all the strips and have them rigid and straight to begin with. Then in the space I'll leave between the tiles, I will fit these strips afterwards. Almost as if slotting a tile into the empty tile space, one at a time. One wall each evening, so I can slowly check all the levels are right. Does this sound ok? Need a good quality, reliable mesh that's rigid and self adhesive. Anyone used the Homelux one before
Homelux Mosaic Mat / Mesh Backing Sheet (300 x 300 x 1.4mm) £1.19 in stock - next day UK delivery plus Tile Cutters and Tiling Tools - http://www.tradetiler.com/homelux-mosaic-mat-mesh-backing-sheet-300-x-300-x-1-4mm.html
Thanks

Do not use Bal White Star it is not suitable, even if it is free, use a white cement based adhesive as Ive mentioned above.
To smooth off the cut metal you can use a diamond rubbing pad.
If you use the mosaic mat mesh you need to have the adhesive coming through the mesh so it adheres to the mosaics as well, as the glue on the mesh could dry off in time and the mosaics could come loose.
How much do you have to make up?
Mapei Keracolour SF is a super fine grout that can be used on metal and comes in a few colours.

 

[seneca]

Thanks again. Lots of useful information (glad I joined the forum)
Take your point regarding the metal mosaic. I'll use the BAL white star for the main 400x150 main ceramic tile, as I have used it before and it's easily available near me. Is there an alternative, ready mix that I could use in place of the Mapei Keraflex Maxi white, as I'll be doing sections when I'm home in the evenings and it would be a bit easier if I didn't have to mix up the adhesive and worry about quantities, consistency and working time, on top of positioning and levelling. I can imagine it being a bit fiddly, and having only ever used ready mixed, don't have the opportunity or tiles to learn as I go along.
Most stockists I know near where I live in South Birmingham sell mostly BAL products, so may need to get anything by Mapei on line. Could Mapei Ultramastic ready mix work, it says it is suitable for small scale mosaic
Difference in tiles is only 2mm (10mm main tile, 8mm mosaic.) I thought a self adhesive mesh would make it up and allow me to position the mosaic before hand and get the brick spacing all even. I see now that the difference is small and the mesh will act as a barrier to the adhesive. Should I just add a bit more adhesive? I do plan to leave an empty strip of space among my main tiles, which is where I would mosaic afterwards. There will be some metal trim at both edges of main tiles on each side of my mosaic space (thought that would be neater and account for where my level is not flush

 

[MTiler]

Thanks again. Lots of useful information (glad I joined the forum)
Take your point regarding the metal mosaic. I'll use the BAL white star for the main 400x150 main ceramic tile, as I have used it before and it's easily available near me. Is there an alternative, ready mix that I could use in place of the Mapei Keraflex Maxi white, as I'll be doing sections when I'm home in the evenings and it would be a bit easier if I didn't have to mix up the adhesive and worry about quantities, consistency and working time, on top of positioning and levelling. I can imagine it being a bit fiddly, and having only ever used ready mixed, don't have the opportunity or tiles to learn as I go along.
Most stockists I know near where I live in South Birmingham sell mostly BAL products, so may need to get anything by Mapei on line. Could Mapei Ultramastic ready mix work, it says it is suitable for small scale mosaic
Difference in tiles is only 2mm (10mm main tile, 8mm mosaic.) I thought a self adhesive mesh would make it up and allow me to position the mosaic before hand and get the brick spacing all even. I see now that the difference is small and the mesh will act as a barrier to the adhesive. Should I just add a bit more adhesive? I do plan to leave an empty strip of space among my main tiles, which is where I would mosaic afterwards. There will be some metal trim at both edges of main tiles on each side of my mosaic space (thought that would be neater and account for where my level is not flush

Do not use a ready mix adhesive with the mosaics. If BAL is easier for you to get hold of then give BALs technical support a call and they can advise you. You need an adhesive thats compatible with the backing on the glass mosaics, as some adhesives can react to it.
Tel +44 (0) 1782 591120
With the mesh you could fix that with cement based adhesive and just skim some adhesive over it. Then once its dry install the mosaics on top of it. Or you could use a jig to apply a 2mm layer of cement based based adhesive, let that dry and then install the mosaics.

 

[seneca]

A week on and the best advice I've had has been from you helpful folk. What is it with tile and adhesive manufacturers that they daren't recommend any product or give advice on anything? Even the tile manufacturer won't endorse a particular brand and they produced the tile. You'd think they would have tested it, and if so, would have used an adhesive to fix it at some point. Maybe it's not wanting to put their neck on the line and be held responsible? Or possibly, fearing I am a novice DIYer assume I will mess it up and blame them? Regardless, I will just go with the recommendations here. I have decided to go with Mapei keraflex maxi S1 (white) as the adhesive and Mapei Keracolour SF (white) as grout (Thanks Miss Tiler!)
I have decided to do all the main tiles (400x150) with it too. Decided I would just use the same adhesive for everything and not bother with any ready mix. Just mix an amount each evening and finish it - start again next evening. I can't find any mention to it being suitable for glass and metal mosaics in any tech sheet, but will assume it is (fingers crossed - pinning my hopes on your expertise Miss Tiler!)
The thing that does concern me is the metal part of the mosaic bonding well. With it being a U shaped profile with only a thin lip to bond on either edge, and a hollow cavity inside, I am worried it will not have enough area to actually adhere to the cement. Especially as I can press it inwards too much with the risk of adhesive oozing through. But then, if it oozed through into the cavity inside the metal that would be good. For this reason I may now thinking mosaic mesh may not be a good idea, as it will mean even less contact between mosaic and adhesive. I know, I know, I am obsessing too much over it, but hey that's me. As per always, any advice is welcome and appreciated. Thanks.

 

[MTiler]

I always check spec sheets to see if a certain adhesive is required. Ive looked on the Studio 55 Mosaic site and theres no info.
Ive used Keraflex Maxi with backed glass, and also with metal tile trims so it wont be a problem.

 

[seneca]

Thanks again MissTiler, very useful having your input. Got the Adhesive now and should get the mosaics at the weekend. Plan on doing all the main field tiiles and leaving my strip until last. They will all be done with the same Keralex maxi, so should get the hand of mixing and using it by the time it goes to the mosaic. Might get a mosaic mesh and see what its like, before deciding on using it. Main issue I had was the aluminum profile is U shaped and hollow with only 2 edges that bond. I'm wondering if I should attempt to put mesh backer on (it will reduce contact area, or just press the mosaic into the adhesive. Saw a video where a tiler used a dita strip and then coated the entire back with adhesive. When it set, he just used it as a regular, stiff, ceramic tile. Doing the same with mesh would allow some adhesive through into the hollow areas. I could do that whilst adhesive was still a bit wet and onto a wall on adhesive. Only problem may be some adhesive oozing through.
How you use the keraflex maxi when doing strips? Do you let it half set first before applying? or just straight on? Many users on this forum use rapid setting and leave it to go semi dry. That seems the way without mesh (called dogtooth I think), but they are pros and have done it a few times. Still, interesting stuff all this!

 

[Lee@emctiles]

Hi @seneca have a look at the genesis tdp strip, this isnt a u shape as it has a bit that goes behind the tile (like a normal tile trim)

and as ive advised you elsewhere, use the mosaic mesh, it will make life alot easier.

 

[seneca]

Bit of an update and looking for some more advice.
I've almost finished the main wall tiles (taken ages, but busy at work) and have my mosaic spaces left to do. All the field tiles were done with Keraflex maxi S1 and grouted with Bal Microflex (white.) Very happy with both products, so a big thanks for the recommendations.
I had planned to use Keraflex Maxi for the mosaics too, as advised though the white seems to be more beige/light grey when dry and I wondered if a whiter adhesive would be better. I have seen some websites showing other mosaics, but also made from aluminium and glass (apparently a big trend in splashbacks) and a few have used Mapei Adesilex P10. Any opinions? Apparently it has a greater bonding strength and is whiter than keraflex maxi. The whiteness may be better for glass, but then the glass pieces are coated with coloured paint on the back, so it shouldn't show though. If there's nothing between the two products, I may stick with the keraflex.
Thanks

 

[Time's Ran Out]

What colour is the back of the glass mosaic?