Discuss Loose tiles & underfloor heating... in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com

JMRolfe

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Hi all

New to the forum so hello, please go gentle, and let me know if I'm posting in the wrong place?

We've recently had an extention, during which we also had the kitchen, utility and all three toilets refitted and retiled. The builders organised or 'did' all the work throught the build, which in hindsight was an error as we've since had a minor electrical fire, and two small leaks amongst other things :(

Latest issue is tiling. Tiles have been down 9 months without issue, but in the last two weeks we've had 5 tiles become loose, across 3 different rooms. Grouting is clearly breaking and coming out making them porous.

My main concern however is the underfloor heating. Presumably if the tile is moving, I'm risking the cables breaking?

Short of ripping it all up and starting again. Is there anything I can do? Unhelpfully we streached ourselves with the build, so with corrections to date funds are limited.

Upstairs floors are chipboard, followed by cables, screeding, adhesive, tiles. = 4 loose tiles, 3 of which in a group.

Downstairs is concrete, 6mm insulation boards, cables, screeding, adhesive, tiles. = 1 loose tile.

To my knowledge they used flexible adhesive etc.

Any advice would be very appreciated? Let me know if I've missed any details?

Thanks!
 

JulianSidney

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could be a 101 different reasons, we need more info
what adhesive?
what primer?
what slc?
photos
straight onto chipboard is a no no
 
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JMRolfe

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Morning!

Not much to see on photos but please find attached?

I've also attached pictures of adhesive & grout.

Primer was 'Prowarm underfloor heating primer' which looked, felt, smelt like PVA glue??

Not sure what Sls is?

I'm thinking getting builders back out not really an option 1) if they didn't do it right the 1st time why will they the 2nd /3rd? 2) unsure if they'd even come back again. I see that as just being stressful to be honest

Very disheartened and fed up with it all tbh.

Thanks
James

20190216_105013.jpg 20190216_105045.jpg 20190216_105112.jpg 20190216_110433.jpg 20190216_110347.jpg
 

JulianSidney

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not come across that adhesive before, the spec says it's suitable for

Sealocrete Rapid Set Flexible Floor & Wall Tile Adhesive is a cement-based adhesive for use on concrete, concrete block, cement render and brick. It can also be used on plaster, plasterboard, chipboard, wood and existing glazed ceramic or vinyl tiles and is suitable for use with most domestic underfloor heating kits. For internal and external use.

big claims there :eek:
 
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JMRolfe

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I'd get onto the builder and also talk to sealoctete direct and get them to come out
In reality do you think it would get me anywhere calling Sealoctete out? I don't think I'd get anything but stress with the builders?

So are you thinking it's the adhesive at fault? I was assuming it was due to being layed on boarding? Although that doesn't explain downstairs with the concrete flooring...

Other than ripping it all up and starting again do I have any alternatives?

Thanks
 

timeless john

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You’ve asked and the replies seem to lead towards getting the builders back!
For whatever reason you seem reluctant to do so, but legally they have to have the opportunity to put it right.
Put everything in writing and keep copies, you will need it if action is required through the courts.
Your alternative is to live with it!
 
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JMRolfe

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How was the heating turned on for the first time, and how long was it left before turning the heating on for the first time.
Thanks all, was just hoping there was an easier, less stressful fix...

I was advised to leave it fro 3 days, then start it at 16 degrees and only increase by 1 degree per day.

In reality, the one that is worst was left at least 2 weeks before switching on, and has only been used approx 10 times?
 

jcrtiling

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To be honest if he doesn't want the builders back and is willing to pay somebody else to sort it , I understand him not wanting the stress as for getting sealocrete out I expect they will find something wrong with the install or instalation techniques so that will be their get out of jail card .
 
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Waluigi

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I would look for a local Tiler(s) to come out and give you some idea of what needs doing to rectify the issues. Even if you have to pay him to give you a quote or even a report on why he thinks it’s failed.

Then get the builders back out and ask them what they plan to do about the issues.

If the advise between the Tiler and the Builders doesn’t tally up then I’d go back to the builders and explain what the professional Tilers suggest.
 

3_fall

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Although the repair of your floors is the most important issue to be dealt with here, there is one thing that you’ve described that concerns me a little.
You’ve mentioned that
“In reality, the one that is worst was left at least 2 weeks before switching on, and has only been used approx 10 times?”
The reason that you have to wait before turning the heating on is to allow the adhesives to cure fully before heating, and 3 days is insufficient.
I appreciate you waited two weeks for the worst floor, but I instruct clients to wait 28 days, that’s the length of time it can take for cement based products to cure fully.
In fact adhesive doesn’t achieve its maximum bond strength until after 28 days.
Secondly, your method of operation, yes you were instructed to increase the temperature slowly at a rate of 1 degree a day, (which would be a good method for the first heating cycle,) but it should also be turned off in the same manor to complete the first cycle, before day to day use
However, was it explained to you that every time you turn the heating on and off, it should ALWAYS be done gradually?
There’s no need for it to be done in 1 degree increments after the first commissioning, but it should be done over a couple of days.
And the reasoning behind it is that you’re trying to prevent ‘thermal shock’ within the adhesive.
Thermal shock can happen at anytime!
It’s not unique to the first operation.
So if for example the way you use it is to leave it at operating temp on the thermostat and just switch it on via the fuse spur, it means it’s going from cold to operating temp straight away, or vice versa, this can possibly lead to thermal shock within the adhesive, which in turn can cause partial or catastrophic failure.
Just something to be aware of.
When the tiles are lifted and before they are
re-instated, look at the adhesive beneath them, typically thermal shock presents as ‘crazy paving’ or multiple micro cracks in the adhesive.
 

jimthetiler

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It looks like you have cranked up the heat too soon,you need to raise the temp over at least a period of 3 days to 7 presuming the ambient temp is 10 plus degrees before you start.
 
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JMRolfe

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So that may be the case in the main bathroom as it's only been used a few times (although not at all in the last 2 months).

But the kitchen and ensuite have been built up per recommendations and kept at 22 degrees morning and night whilst we're home and allowed to drop to 18 during night / 20 day.

Also, at no stage had I been told that underfloor heating had to be kept on continuously?? Seem a bit extreme?
 
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JMRolfe

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Also, never been used but the thermostat (Warmup 4IE) offers geo tracking which will switch your floors off if you leave the house, and back on when you return home? Surely that would invalidate your gradual warmup routine?
 
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  • :bathtub:
  • :battery:
  • :bell:
  • :bellcancel:
  • :bento:
  • :birthdaycake:
  • :blacknib:
  • :blacktelephone:
  • :bluebook:
  • :bomb:
  • :bookmark:
  • :bookmarktab:
  • :books:
  • :bouquet:
  • :bowling:
  • :calendar:
  • :camera:
  • :carpstreamer:
  • :cd:
  • :checkeredflag:
  • :christmastree:
  • :clapperboard:
  • :clipboard:
  • :closedbook:
  • :closedlockkey:
  • :clubs:
  • :confettiball:
  • :construction:
  • :creditcard:
  • :crossedflags:
  • :crown:
  • :crystalball:
  • :darts:
  • :date:
  • :diamondsuit:
  • :door:
  • :droplet:
  • :dvd:
  • :electricplug:
  • :eyes:
  • :fax:
  • :filefolder:
  • :fire:
  • :flagstick:
  • :flashlight:
  • :floppy:
  • :flowercards:
  • :football:
  • :forkknife:
  • :fuelpump:
  • :gamedie:
  • :gemstone:
  • :ghost:
  • :gift:
  • :greenbook:
  • :guitar:
  • :gun:
  • :hammer:
  • :hearnoevil:
  • :heartssuit:
  • :hourglass:
  • :hourglasssand:
  • :inbox:
  • :incomingenvelope:
  • :iphone:
  • :isakayalantern:
  • :jackolantern:
  • :japanesedolls:
  • :japanesegoblin:
  • :japaneseogre:
  • :jokercard:
  • :key:
  • :kiss:
  • :knife:
  • :ledger:
  • :leftmagnify:
  • :lightbulb:
  • :link:
  • :lock:
  • :lockink:
  • :loudspeaker:
  • :loveletter:
  • :mailclosedflaglower:
  • :mailclosedflagup
  • :mailopenflaglower:
  • :mailopenflagup:
  • :megaphone:
  • :memo:
  • :microphone:
  • :microscope:
  • :minidisc:
  • :mobilecalling:
  • :moneybag:
  • :moneywings:
  • :moviecamera:
  • :moyai:
  • :musickeyboard:
  • :mute:
  • :newspaper:
  • :notebook:
  • :notebookdecorative:
  • :nutbolt:
  • :openbook:
  • :openfile:
  • :openlock:
  • :orangebook:
  • :outbox:
  • :package:
  • :pagefaceup:
  • :pagecurl:
  • :pager:
  • :paperclip:
  • :partypooper:
  • :pencil:
  • :performingarts:
  • :personalcomputer:
  • :pill:
  • :pinedecoration:
  • :pileofpoop:
  • :postalhorn:
  • :postbox:
  • :pushpin:
  • :radio:
  • :rightmagnify:
  • :roladex:
  • :rotatinglight:
  • :roundpushpin:
  • :rugby:
  • :satellite:
  • :sax:
  • :scissors:
  • :scroll:
  • :seat:
  • :seenoevil:
  • :shower:
  • :skis:
  • :skull:
  • :slotmachine:
  • :smoking:
  • :soccerball:
  • :spaceinvader:
  • :spades:
  • :speaknoevil:
  • :speaker:
  • :speakerone:
  • :speakerthree:
  • :speechballoon:
  • :straightruler:
  • :sweatdrops:
  • :syringe:
  • :telephonereceiver:
  • :telescope:
  • :television:
  • :tennisball:
  • :thoughtballoon:
  • :ticket:
  • :toilet:
  • :triangularruler:
  • :triangularflag:
  • :trophy:
  • :trumpet:
  • :vhs:
  • :videocamera:
  • :videogame:
  • :violin:
  • :windchime:
  • :wrench:

Have you completed your free Tilers Directory listing?

  • Yes - I'm awesome and have it done

    Votes: 6 54.5%
  • No - Please help me!

    Votes: 5 45.5%

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