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Barnjet

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Hi Guys

Newbie here, hope you can help. I’m helping my son on his building project. He is getting his builder to install 45sqm of Kilkenny Stone Washed Light limestone tiles ( 600 x 400 x 20). The builder has laid lots of stone before and has recommended Lithofin Stain Stop MN as the sealer.

We have experimented on a scrap piece and are worried that after 2 coats, the tiles are significantly darker. I have read on this forum and elsewhere that Lithofin is neutral so have we misapplied the Lithofin on the test piece? Hopefully I have managed to insert a copy photo of the test piece. Don’t worry about the other Topps sealer on the left, we won’t be using that one.
Any advice much appreciated. Thanks in advance

107990
 
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jcrtiling

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Hi Guys

Newbie here, hope you can help. I’m helping my son on his building project. He is getting his builder to install 45sqm of Kilkenny Stone Washed Light limestone tiles ( 600 x 400 x 20). The builder has laid lots of stone before and has recommended Lithofin Stain Stop MN as the sealer.

We have experimented on a scrap piece and are worried that after 2 coats, the tiles are significantly darker. I have read on this forum and elsewhere that Lithofin is neutral so have we misapplied the Lithofin on the test piece? Hopefully I have managed to insert a copy photo of the test piece. Don’t worry about the other Topps sealer on the left, we won’t be using that one.
Any advice much appreciated. Thanks in advance

View attachment 107990
Have you tried wiping a stone with a clean damp cloth to see how it reacts.
 

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Oops photo attached this time

C3F31C21-6AB3-4494-9D62-0C8235869694.jpeg
 

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We will try another test piece and make sure there’s no residue left on the surface. I’ll post this later. Thanks for help so far
 

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Test No 2 completed using the Lithofin and some LTP Mattstone. Photos below

108006


And from a different angle
3379C30B-213C-4E30-8D6E-A0AFA045B1C1.jpegAC7AED14-36F7-431D-8446-E72A96F1D3EB.jpeg

In all tests so far the Lithofin has been the darkest shade and left streaky marks. The LTP is less dark, and streak free but is it as good as the Lithofin?

One thing I notice is the Lithofin has a shelf life of 3 years and this tin looks like it’s been knocking around ever since Shades of Grey was written ;) Would that cause this issue?

Thanks for advice so far.
 

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I’d rather have it a shade of grey ( pun intended) than not sealed.
Yes TJ
The builder definitely wants to seal before grouting and seal again. He finished laying them today and protected them. Plans to grout and seal next week
 
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How old is that tin of stain stop? It has a short shelf life from date of opening. If it's old (it looks pretty old) it may have evaporated and be no longer working appropriately.

I once used stain stop plus, which was regular stain stop mixed with colour intensifier. It was very difficult to apply without getting streaks but it gave the appearance that you seem to be getting here.

May be worth a new tin of stain stop to test?
 

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Try universeal rapid all in one. Might get better results
Thanks HM I have seen good reviews for Universeal Rapid but I can’t find any local stockist to Peckham. It only seems to be available from a few distributors who charge an arm and a leg for delivery. Do you know if any of the regular builders merchants or chains stock it. Nothing comes up on the internet
 

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How old is that tin of stain stop? It has a short shelf life from date of opening. If it's old (it looks pretty old) it may have evaporated and be no longer working appropriately.

I once used stain stop plus, which was regular stain stop mixed with colour intensifier. It was very difficult to apply without getting streaks but it gave the appearance that you seem to be getting here.

May be worth a new tin of stain stop to test?
Thanks ATS, it is an old tin, so you may be right. Anyway worth a go with a new tin as the product does get very good reviews
 

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Thanks HM I have seen good reviews for Universeal Rapid but I can’t find any local stockist to Peckham. It only seems to be available from a few distributors who charge an arm and a leg for delivery. Do you know if any of the regular builders merchants or chains stock it. Nothing comes up on the internet
I'm not sure of stockists unfortunately. Trade tiler sell it and delivery shouldn't be too bad. I'd try ringing them tomorrow to see if anyone has it on the shelf near you
 

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Ok new tin of Lithofin on order and a tin of Universeal Rapid. Delivery tomorrow hopefully.

In meantime apologise if this is a stupid question, but what are the risks if we don’t seal the tiles at all? Builder is going to use Mapei UltraColour Plus dark grey grout. Would this stain the tiles if we didn’t seal them first?

108013image.jpg
 

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Ok new tin of Lithofin on order and a tin of Universeal Rapid. Delivery tomorrow hopefully.

In meantime apologise if this is a stupid question, but what are the risks if we don’t seal the tiles at all? Builder is going to use Mapei UltraColour Plus dark grey grout. Would this stain the tiles if we didn’t seal them first?

View attachment 108013View attachment 108013
You might get away with it , but if you want to try to what you have been sensible enough to do so far ,test , mix some grout , spread it on a spare tile , and spread some on a tile you have sealed . Leave for a few minutes , clean off allow to dry and see what you think ,.
 
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As a general rule of thumb the darker a limestone the more dense and less susceptible it is to staining (there are always exceptions through).

They are still porous though, so sealing is a must.

I'd do as @jcrtiling suggests and test it on an off cut, but I'd also leave some grout on the edge of the slab to dry overnight and see if the stone draws any dye from the grout.
 
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Thanks guys, that good advice. More experimentation. Probably after we tested the new sealers.
 

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Ok new tin of Lithofin on order and a tin of Universeal Rapid. Delivery tomorrow hopefully.

In meantime apologise if this is a stupid question, but what are the risks if we don’t seal the tiles at all? Builder is going to use Mapei UltraColour Plus dark grey grout. Would this stain the tiles if we didn’t seal them first?

View attachment 108013View attachment 108013
How big are the joints gonna be? I imagine around 5mm. Don't grout before sealing and use a wide joint grout like bal. It'll save the builder a world of pain
 

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How big are the joints gonna be? I imagine around 5mm. Don't grout before sealing and use a wide joint grout like bal. It'll save the builder a world of pain
Hi Hm, tiles already laid with 1mm spacers. Tiles have a cushion edge and are now under protective cover while he gets on with other stuff. Is the builder going to be suffering?
 

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Hi Hm, tiles already laid with 1mm spacers. Tiles have a cushion edge and are now under protective cover while he gets on with other stuff. Is the builder going to be suffering?
He'll be OK with a 1mm joint but that's very tight. Mapei ucp us very fast and on larger joints, more commonly used with stone, is a bugger to get right
 

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Make sure the protective covering is not trapping moisture in.
They’re under Corex, I think it’s called that. The sheets are taped together, to stop them sliding over each other, but the perimeter is not taped down. Cleaning/washing tiles is yet to to happen.
 

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Gulp HM, not sure what we can do about that unless we put the brakes on the whole project.

I do remember reading the adhesive packaging which said something about minimum water requirement being required to cure the adhesive. So fingers crossed there’s not much excess to come through.
 
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That's well cut stone. In all the years I fitted natural stone it was very rare you could have fitted this kind of volume with a 1mm joint.

3mm was what I always used, mainly so I could use a wide joint grout as HM suggests.

That said, the tighter the joints the better it looks in my mind.
 
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Agreed on that...really well cut, fitted a limestone floor before Christmas, started off at 3mm but the joints were varying 4,5,6,7,8mm by the third row gave up to spacers and just used a laser down the rows..
 

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All very hectic these last few days while we completed 2nd fix plumbing, electrical and kitchen installation.

Anyway end result is we went with the Universeal sealer and tested the Wapei grout. Both David and Katrina at Trade Tiler were very helpful.

Hopefully attached video shows end result of 45sqm laid.
Thanks for all help and advice
View attachment C9F4D846-08DC-4AC2-A10E-F9C7E406FCAA.MOV
 

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