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Discuss Grouting quality - advice needed in the UK Tiling Forum | Tiling Advice area at TilersForums. USA and UK Tiling Forum

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I'm looking for some expert advice and hopefully some reassurance....

I've just had a complete bathroom renovation finished by a tradesman who specialises in bathrooms. In general, I am really pleased with the outcome and the contractor has been a pleasure to deal throughout the project. I have, however, some worries about the quality of his grouting and I want to be sure they are valid before I bring it up with him.

The wall grout has a lot of pinholes (photos attached) all over, including the shower enclosure and the area directly above the wash basin (less of an issue but still). I am not that bothered about how they look, but I do worry about the water ingress. To top it off, the tiles have been laid directly onto a gypsum board (not the waterproof kind) and the walls have no tanking on them. When I queried it, the contractor told me that it's because it's a bath shower so there is no point in installing tanking as full waterproof-ness cannot be achieved around the tub - since then I've read that tanking any type of shower has been mandatory since 2018 (is that correct?). These two things coupled together (no tanking membrane and holes in the grout) do worry me, it was an expensive project, which also caused a massive upheaval, and I don't want to have to revisit it in a few years time. Are my worries groundless? Any expert advice would be appreciated? Thank you.

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Dave

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They are air pockets in the grout from a wet mix. They can he touched in.
As for the tanking , it’s not mandatory, it’s a recommendation according to an update to bs5385 standards and not a regulation.
 
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They are air pockets in the grout from a wet mix. They can he touched in.
As for the tanking , it’s not mandatory, it’s a recommendation according to an update to bs5385 standards and not a regulation.
thank you for your reply, Dave. Can they still be touched in even though the grouting was done a week ago and the shower has been used a few times since? I was under the impression that new grout won't properly bond with the old one and you need to rake it out first, is that only the case when the grout is old? Cheers!
 

Dave

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thank you for your reply, Dave. Can they still be touched in even though the grouting was done a week ago and the shower has been used a few times since? I was under the impression that new grout won't properly bond with the old one and you need to rake it out first, is that only the case when the grout is old? Cheers!
Ye just rake out the affected areas and touch in. Have you told your installer
 
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Ye just rake out the affected areas and touch in. Have you told your installer
no, I haven't yet as I wanted to have a confirmation that it is an actual problem first. I don't expect he will be happy about being asked to fix it as it sounds like a tedious job.
 
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It’s not tedious, it’s a fault on the grouting that’s needs correcting.
thanks for reassurance. It's not what I do and I like the guy so I wanted to be sure my expectations aren't unreasonable before I ask him to come back. You put my mind at rest, thank you.
 

Bathfix Bob

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Don't feel bad, he made the decision for you to ask him back by leaving the grout like that, I go to extreme lengths to get every last detail perfect sometimes staying till 7pm.
 
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Don't feel bad, he made the decision for you to ask him back by leaving the grout like that, I go to extreme lengths to get every last detail perfect sometimes staying till 7pm.
thanks for reassurance. Yes, I think you are right, he was rushing, I think, and didn't inspect it properly afterwards. I did notice but at that stage I thought it was only a cosmetic thing and it didn't bother me enough to bring it up, now I realise that I probably should as it may cause issues further down the line.
 
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One more question guys after I've had a chance to sleep on this. If I was to leave it as is (I'm worried about the potential tile damage when this is being fixed) and seal the grout - would that be okay? I assume that when grout eventually fails it will be very apparent to the naked eye, right? So say I see it cracking, holes getting bigger etc. in 2-3 years time, I have regrouted then? I am not 100% confident that asking my contractor to fix this now is the best course of action. Firstly, I worry about him cracking brand new tiles and secondly, if this is what he deems to be a good enough finish, perhaps he isn't that skilled at grouting. Thoughts?
 
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Your worrying too much. Its a simple fix. Yes the air bubble holes won’t really cause harm , it’s more an aesthetic look.
oh, really? if that's the case, I can live with it the way it is... I thought that people were saying that it will make grout prone to water damage and reduce its lifespan?

yeah, I do worry cos it's an awkward conversation and I am not sure that trying to fix it won't make things worse. If someone is content to leave grout looking like this, I'm not sure that they will be able to fix it to a good standard.
 

Dave

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oh, really? if that's the case, I can live with it the way it is... I thought that people were saying that it will make grout prone to water damage and reduce its lifespan?

yeah, I do worry cos it's an awkward conversation and I am not sure that trying to fix it won't make things worse. If someone is content to leave grout looking like this, I'm not sure that they will be able to fix it to a good standard.
If the grout is hard then wetting won’t hurt it, personally I would be asking for it to be corrected as that’s what you paid for.
Let us know how you get on.
 
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If the grout is hard then wetting won’t hurt it, personally I would be asking for it to be corrected as that’s what you paid for.
Let us know how you get on.
Thanks, will do. The grout is hard but not as hard as it can be. I did a small sample to pick the colour and it is set much harder on that (and no bubbles). Will speak to the guy and see what he says...either way I need to make him aware in case there are issues further down the line. Thanks for your help.
 
M

Marak Moore

I think you are missing the point a little bit. Its a simple fix for a tiler,if you are grouting quickly (for whatever reason) there may be some pinholes, usually seen up the later/next day (after the airbubbles burst) and filled. Its part of the job, you have every right and expectation that this be done correctly. If this tiler is worth his salt, he should have no complaints about finishing the work.
 

Kevbos

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I'm looking for some expert advice and hopefully some reassurance....

I've just had a complete bathroom renovation finished by a tradesman who specialises in bathrooms. In general, I am really pleased with the outcome and the contractor has been a pleasure to deal throughout the project. I have, however, some worries about the quality of his grouting and I want to be sure they are valid before I bring it up with him.

The wall grout has a lot of pinholes (photos attached) all over, including the shower enclosure and the area directly above the wash basin (less of an issue but still). I am not that bothered about how they look, but I do worry about the water ingress. To top it off, the tiles have been laid directly onto a gypsum board (not the waterproof kind) and the walls have no tanking on them. When I queried it, the contractor told me that it's because it's a bath shower so there is no point in installing tanking as full waterproof-ness cannot be achieved around the tub - since then I've read that tanking any type of shower has been mandatory since 2018 (is that correct?). These two things coupled together (no tanking membrane and holes in the grout) do worry me, it was an expensive project, which also caused a massive upheaval, and I don't want to have to revisit it in a few years time. Are my worries groundless? Any expert advice would be appreciated? Thank you.

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Can I ask if the tiles are mosaics ? And really I'd be more worried about the grout that is round what looks like a bath edge ?? And no silicone ?? You may get small amount of water through pin pricks in grout !that can be easily fixed , but grout against any bath or shower tray with no silicone is more of a worry
 
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Can I ask if the tiles are mosaics ? And really I'd be more worried about the grout that is round what looks like a bath edge ?? And no silicone ?? You may get small amount of water through pin pricks in grout !that can be easily fixed , but grout against any bath or shower tray with no silicone is more of a worry
Hi, they are oversized metro tiles, not mosaics. There is a bead of silicone around the bath - I think the picture you mean is a bit of a windowframe...I've spoken to the tiler and he will return to fix it so all good, thank you for your suggestions.
 
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I think you are missing the point a little bit. Its a simple fix for a tiler,if you are grouting quickly (for whatever reason) there may be some pinholes, usually seen up the later/next day (after the airbubbles burst) and filled. Its part of the job, you have every right and expectation that this be done correctly. If this tiler is worth his salt, he should have no complaints about finishing the work.
thanks, I have asked the tiler to fix this and he agreed to come back this week at some point. I was overthinking it probably based on my previous (bad) experience...
 
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UPATE: Hi guys, so the contractor came in to fix the issue this week. I marked up on the holes and he did imply that I was being crazy about some of the smaller ones as apparently if you inspect anyone's grout up close you will see those. I disagree as there are even areas in his own grouting that do not contain any or hardly pinholes. The shower area was riddled with them.

Anyway, he did not rake any of the existing grout out at all, instead he told me that the best way is to put wetter mix (wasn't this issue caused by too much water in the first place) onto the existing grout lines - I had alarm bells ringing about putting grout onto grout but when I queried it he assured that that it will be fine.

This was done on Wednesday, today I used the shower for the first time and some of those lines are running...fed up is an understatement. Any suggestions on what would be the best solution in this case. Shall I give it more time to cure or is it beyond hope?

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Dave

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Over wetting the grout weakens the strength/hardness of the grout. There is a reason there is a mixing ratio on the back of the bag. If over watered it won’t fully hydrate/set.
It needs raking out and doing properly.
 
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Over wetting the grout weakens the strength/hardness of the grout. There is a reason there is a mixing ratio on the back of the bag. If over watered it won’t fully hydrate/set.
It needs raking out and doing properly.
I just asked him about that and he says that 'the second layer of grout (done 3 weeks after the first one) was just to seal those pinholes and that what is running is just the residue of that 2nd layer and once I wipe it off it will be fine. Is that even a remote possibility? Surely, that residue would have been wiped off when he sponged the grout at the end. Should I trust him or is he simply lying to get out of having to do this properly...

I'm gutted. I went from liking the bloke and wanting to recommend them to my friends to doubting a word he says or feeling like maybe I am just being played.
 
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Rossaa

It’s just air bubbles doesn’t matter how much I try I always seem to get the odd one of these
What he’s done is fine you worry too much
Why on earth you would you rake out the grout?
The residue will just wipe off
 
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It’s just air bubbles doesn’t matter how much I try I always seem to get the odd one of these
What he’s done is fine you worry too much
Why on earth you would you rake out the grout?
The residue will just wipe off
well, if you research that there is general consensus that applying one layer of grout on top of another is not a good idea that will last so that's why I am worried. Grout doesn't adhere to grout, it adheres to the tile edges. I don't think expecting a watertight grout, without airpockets, from a professional is too big an ask.
 

Kevbos

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Please contribute to this thread if you have any new information or can even just reiterate what has been said already. :)
It’s just air bubbles doesn’t matter how much I try I always seem to get the odd one of these
What he’s done is fine you worry too much
Why on earth you would you rake out the grout?
The residue will just wipe off
Great advice rossaa! Not
 

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