Discuss bathroom job any advice, tips, tricks appreciated in the DIY Tiling Advice area at TilersForums.com

MAK_Tiling

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Bathrrom getting ripoed out everything except the bath with two internal walls and two external.
Plan is to rip out old tiles,take wallpaper off plus any plaster left behind it and board all walls with marmox multiboards and seal joints on boards around bath area with their waterproof tape.

What size boards would you recomend since i dont know what the studs are centred at? E.g marmox 10mm centred every 300mm and 12.5mm is at 400mm.is this a big deal or should i have studs already bought incase of need to sister studs together to match the size but also to get the studs plumb and flat as possible??? =S

Solid walls dot and dab plus mechanical fixings.the floor looks like some sort of fake tiles maybe stuck down with floorboards underneath. Whats best to use on floor in this situation marmox or a cement board or a decoupling membrane like dural yellow one for ease of mind of no cracks tranfering through??.

Bathroom.wals 15sqm and floor about 5 and tiles are ceramic wall and floor
Walss 25 x 50cm
Floor - 45 x 45cm

Looking forward to hearing on any advice or tips i should know or methods i should consider. Many thanks
M
 

Dan

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Have you done this kind of thing before? Sounds like a fair bit of a job. Not your usual spot of DIY.
 
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MAK_Tiling

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No not a comple rip out before but will be having a builder along side me who has and will be concentrating on plumbing/elecrrical side plus worktop while.i concentrate on the tiling.
Fairley new to tiling have done a ukprotiling course and have done a few odd jobs here and there for friends.
This jobs for a family member of mine so is willing to give me the experience to take job on alongside builder who has done these rip outs but with plasterboard instead.hope that explains it mate .
 

jcrtiling

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I'm not sure but I think builder and electrics in a bathroom is an illegal mixture .
 

Boggs

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As @JordanLincs says it’s very important to remove any deflection from the bathroom floor.
This is especially important when using ceramic tiles on the floor.

An easy way to test the deflection is to fill a glass to the top with water, place it in the centre of the floor and jump up and down.
If the water spills over the edge there’s too much deflection.

If this is the case I would be looking to remove the entire floor and bracing between joists at 300mm centres.

Also I would recommend overboarding with 6mm Hardie backer board glued, screwed and joints taped.

And as @jcrtiling says builders should not be touching the electrics ;)

Any queries give us a shout.
 
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JordanLincs

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As @JordanLincs says it’s very important to remove any deflection from the bathroom floor.
This is especially important when using ceramic tiles on the floor.

An easy way to test the deflection is to fill a glass to the top with water, place it in the centre of the floor and jump up and down.
If the water spills over the edge there’s too much deflection.

If this is the case I would be looking to remove the entire floor and bracing between joists at 300mm centres.

Also I would recommend 6mm Hardie backer board glued, screwed and joints taped.

And as @jcrtiling says builders should not be touching the electrics ;)

Any queries give us a shout.
6mm direct to the joists!?
 
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MAK_Tiling

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@jcrtiling if it was left to the builder it wouldve been tiled statight to the plywood :rolleyes:
@JordanLincs what instance would you use sometging like a ditra or dural does it not protect aginst deflection? Is it better used on say concrete floors?
@Boggs this is first floor job so want to use the easiest material to work with regardless of price they say xps foam boards are easier to cut and lighter but im not sure if its rigid enough for floor. Like to hear your thoughts on marmox/jackoboard on floors. But if its not the corect material to use in this instance then id go for the one thats right. Thanks for the tip about how to check for deflection :cool:
is therr a diffrence between deflection and lateral movement ? Sory for novice questions still tryna wrap my head around certain things
Cheers
 

JordanLincs

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@jcrtiling if it was left to the builder it wouldve been tiled statight to the plywood :rolleyes:
@JordanLincs what instance would you use sometging like a ditra or dural does it not protect aginst deflection? Is it better used on say concrete floors?
@Boggs this is first floor job so want to use the easiest material to work with regardless of price they say xps foam boards are easier to cut and lighter but im not sure if its rigid enough for floor. Like to hear your thoughts on marmox/jackoboard on floors. But if its not the corect material to use in this instance then id go for the one thats right. Thanks for the tip about how to check for deflection :cool:
is therr a diffrence between deflection and lateral movement ? Sory for novice questions still tryna wrap my head around certain things
Cheers
Big floors, tiling on multiple types of subfloor. It's used to protect from lateral movement not deflection.
 

Boggs

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For me 6mm Hardie on timber floors as I find it stronger than Delta, Wedi etc. If I were to use XPS boards on timber floors I would use 10mm.
As for cutting 6mm Hardie is really easy, it’s a score and snap process using their scoring knife, two passes and bend over a piece of timber.
Drilling holes is easy too, I use spade bits as they don’t produce as much fine dust as hole saws but I have my vacuum on to collect any dust as I drill anyway.
 
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MAK_Tiling

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@Boggs tah for info mate and yh marmox say should be minimum 10mm on floorboards.
Good thing about the hardie is 6mm so a smaller rise which i must admit was one of the reasons i liked the mats ditra etc. Do you stil have to prime the hardie? I think nomoreply do a pre primed board also dont they? :rolleyes: =S
Thanks
 

JordanLincs

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@Boggs tah for info mate and yh marmox say should be minimum 10mm on floorboards.
Good thing about the hardie is 6mm so a smaller rise which i must admit was one of the reasons i liked the mats ditra etc. Do you stil have to prime the hardie? I think nomoreply do a pre primed board also dont they? :rolleyes: =S
Thanks

You don't need to prime Hardie board. Hardi is much denser than marmox so doesn't need to be as thick. marmox which has a foam core making it lightweight compared with Hardi.

I find cutting 6mm Hardi easy, 10mm your best using angle grinder with a cement board cutting wheel.

When I fit hardibacker to floorboards I:
  • screw down any loose floorboards.
  • hammer and protruding nails in
  • fill and voids with adhesive
  • stick boards down with S2 class adhesive
  • screw hardi down
 
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3_fall

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Don’t forget @MAK_Tiling all these boards are overlay only, you must have something below.
Personally I prefer to remove floor boards, all new substrate is a better way to go for me.
The best thing to put down in my opinion is a product like 22mm no more ply or 25mm GIFA board, these are structural boards that once primed correctly ban be tiled direct to with no other build up. Because they’re inert, there’s no danger of expansion or contraction.
Next to that, 2 x 12mm ply boards, first screwed direct to joists and laid brickbond.
The second layer glued perpendicular to the first, and screwed ONLY into the first layer, not joist.
This forms a far more stable ply floor than 18 or 25mm.
But you should still overboard with a Marmox type or cement board, so that you’re not tiling to timber.
Or you can use an anti fracture or ufh mat instead.
If you’re installing ufh, marmox type is better than hardie because they’re insulating, or specific ufh boards from someone like warm up.

To answer an earlier question.
Deflection is bounce effectively.
Lateral movement is caused by expansion and contraction of your substrate. (Sideways movement)
That’s why tiling direct to ply or timber is not best practise.

And none of these aftermarket products improve deflection officially!
We know that some do, but for warranty purposes from the manufacturers they don’t!!
They are supposed to be fitted to solid load bearing substrates, they are not to be relied upon to strengthen a floor.
Confused? You will be! :D
 
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MAK_Tiling

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@3_fall right defienlty confused o_O At first but have read it a few times over and see what useful info it is and now seewhat you mean i think :rolleyes: Lol hope you can verify things am not so sure on:thumbsup: so here goes..
Both the 22mm no.more ply and giffa boards and ply options are if floorboard sre taken out right?
Nmp and gifa board can be tiles straight on to it when primed first? Ply option still needs overlayin with eithe c/b or f/b. So are nmp and giffa boards load baering substrates?
In my bathrrom.job ill asses the condioton of the floorboards with the water in glass test + jumping if ok will leave them in. Lastley would love to know your opinion on which anti deflection products do work from your experience? Thanks:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

3_fall

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The NMP and GIFA are structural flooring, tongue and groove construction boards, and as long as there is adequate joist spacing, yes, that’s a finished substrate. They’re inert, and won’t change shape at all. Although can be difficult to source because it’s still not used enough.
There are NO anti deflection products as such.
Some help, but none are designed for that purpose, only lateral movement.
The deflection should be removed by correctly prepping the substrate.
For example, adding noggins between joists, and renewing what goes on the joist.
That’s when options start to creep in.
 

3_fall

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You’ll come to realise @MAK_Tiling that this is basic knowledge that you must learn I’m afraid.
No genius in it at all, sorry haha
But thanks for the sentiment mate.
It’s appreciated, truly. :)
 
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  • :waxcrescent:
  • :waxgibbous:
  • :time10:
  • :time1030:
  • :time11:
  • :time1130:
  • :time12:
  • :time1230:
  • :time1:
  • :time130:
  • :time2:
  • :time230:
  • :time3:
  • :time330:
  • :time4:
  • :time430:
  • :time5:
  • :time530:
  • :time6:
  • :time630:
  • :time7:
  • :time730:
  • :time8:
  • :time830:
  • :time9:
  • :time930:
  • :coupleheart:
  • :dancer:
  • :dancers:
  • :ear:
  • :family:
  • :fist:
  • :girl:
  • :guapimo:
  • :guardsman:
  • :haircut:
  • :hand:
  • :handfist:
  • :handok:
  • :handpointdown:
  • :handpointleft:
  • :handpointright:
  • :handpointup:
  • :handwaving:
  • :clapping:
  • :handsopen:
  • :praying:
  • :headmassage:
  • :infodeskperson:
  • :man:
  • :holdinghands:
  • :menholdinghands:
  • :mouth:
  • :nailpolish:
  • :nogood:
  • :nose:
  • :okay:
  • :oldman:
  • :oldwoman:
  • :personblonde:
  • :personfrowning:
  • :personpouting:
  • :policeofficer:
  • :princess:
  • :raisedhands:
  • :raisinghand:
  • :santa:
  • :thumbsdown:
  • :thumbsup:
  • :tongue:
  • :turban:
  • :woman:
  • :womenholdinghands:
  • :baby:
  • :babyangel:
  • :bowing:
  • :boy:
  • :bride:
  • :constructionworker:
  • :couplekiss:
  • :8ball:
  • :alarmclock:
  • :alien:
  • :anchor:
  • :artpalette:
  • :babybottle:
  • :balloon:
  • :dollar:
  • :euro:
  • :gbp:
  • :yen:
  • :barberpole:
  • :baseball:
  • :basketball:
  • :bath:
  • :bathtub:
  • :battery:
  • :bell:
  • :bellcancel:
  • :bento:
  • :birthdaycake:
  • :blacknib:
  • :blacktelephone:
  • :bluebook:
  • :bomb:
  • :bookmark:
  • :bookmarktab:
  • :books:
  • :bouquet:
  • :bowling:
  • :calendar:
  • :camera:
  • :carpstreamer:
  • :cd:
  • :checkeredflag:
  • :christmastree:
  • :clapperboard:
  • :clipboard:
  • :closedbook:
  • :closedlockkey:
  • :clubs:
  • :confettiball:
  • :construction:
  • :creditcard:
  • :crossedflags:
  • :crown:
  • :crystalball:
  • :darts:
  • :date:
  • :diamondsuit:
  • :door:
  • :droplet:
  • :dvd:
  • :electricplug:
  • :eyes:
  • :fax:
  • :filefolder:
  • :fire:
  • :flagstick:
  • :flashlight:
  • :floppy:
  • :flowercards:
  • :football:
  • :forkknife:
  • :fuelpump:
  • :gamedie:
  • :gemstone:
  • :ghost:
  • :gift:
  • :greenbook:
  • :guitar:
  • :gun:
  • :hammer:
  • :hearnoevil:
  • :heartssuit:
  • :hourglass:
  • :hourglasssand:
  • :inbox:
  • :incomingenvelope:
  • :iphone:
  • :isakayalantern:
  • :jackolantern:
  • :japanesedolls:
  • :japanesegoblin:
  • :japaneseogre:
  • :jokercard:
  • :key:
  • :kiss:
  • :knife:
  • :ledger:
  • :leftmagnify:
  • :lightbulb:
  • :link:
  • :lock:
  • :lockink:
  • :loudspeaker:
  • :loveletter:
  • :mailclosedflaglower:
  • :mailclosedflagup
  • :mailopenflaglower:
  • :mailopenflagup:
  • :megaphone:
  • :memo:
  • :microphone:
  • :microscope:
  • :minidisc:
  • :mobilecalling:
  • :moneybag:
  • :moneywings:
  • :moviecamera:
  • :moyai:
  • :musickeyboard:
  • :mute:
  • :newspaper:
  • :notebook:
  • :notebookdecorative:
  • :nutbolt:
  • :openbook:
  • :openfile:
  • :openlock:
  • :orangebook:
  • :outbox:
  • :package:
  • :pagefaceup:
  • :pagecurl:
  • :pager:
  • :paperclip:
  • :partypooper:
  • :pencil:
  • :performingarts:
  • :personalcomputer:
  • :pill:
  • :pinedecoration:
  • :pileofpoop:
  • :postalhorn:
  • :postbox:
  • :pushpin:
  • :radio:
  • :rightmagnify:
  • :roladex:
  • :rotatinglight:
  • :roundpushpin:
  • :rugby:
  • :satellite:
  • :sax:
  • :scissors:
  • :scroll:
  • :seat:
  • :seenoevil:
  • :shower:
  • :skis:
  • :skull:
  • :slotmachine:
  • :smoking:
  • :soccerball:
  • :spaceinvader:
  • :spades:
  • :speaknoevil:
  • :speaker:
  • :speakerone:
  • :speakerthree:
  • :speechballoon:
  • :straightruler:
  • :sweatdrops:
  • :syringe:
  • :telephonereceiver:
  • :telescope:
  • :television:
  • :tennisball:
  • :thoughtballoon:
  • :ticket:
  • :toilet:
  • :triangularruler:
  • :triangularflag:
  • :trophy:
  • :trumpet:
  • :vhs:
  • :videocamera:
  • :videogame:
  • :violin:
  • :windchime:
  • :wrench:

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